jbl haters

[greyhound]

I spent tons on some Roksan, Klipcsh and Quad gear in November. I was bored by January.I Ebayed the bloody lot !
I sat there like a statue afraid to move incase I
lost the soundstage. What a complete waste of time. I did'nt even enjoy my music all i did was analize it ( english humour).
Anyway, I picked up a pair of 4435's and they make this
45 year old man giggle like a big kid . I bloody love Jbl . Infact , i'm building another pair , 4345's . Someone even asked me If I trying to compensate for a small cxxk ?"

oh man i realy love the 4435 but i cant afford them.
The "analizing "factor plays a big rol with these guys. Listening to how far the drums are behind the vocals and that kind of things.
I do that some times but i can shut it off and just enjoy my music.
Its like when someone behind a reporter on tv does something strange you will not hear what the reporter has to say you'l be focust on the guy (drums) in the back.

[greyhound]

anyone withe a nice link to the everest 2 that i can throw at them.
curious to what they will say to put it down.
havent listend to them myself yet.
anyone with first hand expirience?

hoe does it compare to the K2 series.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Im currently defending JBL against a bunch off audiophiles who are trying to convince me that JBL is rubbish and that i should trow them in the garbage.(www.hear.nl forum)
I told them that every speaker (no matter how good it is ) will have a specific sound. In other words the speaker itself will have influence in the end result. I think some speakers are better in rock than otehers and some are better in classical or techno.
I Said that of all the speakers ive heard in my life JBL is the one that makes sense of all kinds of music. They say if a speaker has preferences (soory for my english) its no good.
Im a fighting windmills here or am i right.
if you guys think im wrong i will immediatly accept it.
So please let me know what your thinking
robin

Hi Robin,

I would suggest your buddies are protecting their justification for all their expensive Hifi Jewellery.

The point is though what JBLs are they talking about. The L100, the L166 or the L250Ti, or the newer K2's.

Perhaps your argument should be to think if you lined up an L250 against anything else of the same era it would hold its own.

Dont expect something of that era to compete with the latest wonders of the 2007 CES. Head to head though at the moment the E2 possibily has everything else in the corner.

On a more down to earth level I did a tour of a few reputable HiFi shops today and compared some loudspeakers that I could afford on the spot and take home in the car just to see what was out there. $AUD4000-5000

The contenders were the PMC FB1+
http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/fb1.html

The Legend Kantu
http://www.legendspeakers.com.au/products/kantu.html

The B & W 704
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/...el/MODEL%20704

These are all current and really good home loudspeakers. They had no JBLs in the shop but we played familiar hi quality cds using a hi end Cyrus CD front end a Musical Fidelity top of the line integrated amp.

They were all what I would call HiFi accurate and had a nice timbre in the upper registers and imaged really well but they had their own sound in that one model tended to do some things better than the other model.

The PMC had the best mid to hi integration and the most oomp in the bass and it was a bit warm and has a sound stage to die for. I would have preferred the next model up but it was AUD$8000 with a dome mid

The Legend was snappier in presentation with the ceramic dome tweeter and had harder, tighter bass. It was the most neutral but not necessarily the most listenable. The next model up has a biamped sub and similar mid and tweeter, Its about AUD$9000+

The B & W 703 had the biggest sound ( a party trick ) and its performance overall was somewhat less than the others overall. The next model up has a better Kevlar mid and is about AUD$6600. I think I would need to look at the 800 series to get into the ball park with B & W.

A couple of points.

None of them had bass that I would call realistic on Dark Side of the Moon. None of them had what I would call real scale in terms of bass weight and dynamic contrast. These properties are essential for me. Essentially they sounded like powerful small loudspeakers. The dealer has bigger and better but they were around $25000

I walked out empty handed and realised I needed to spent probably $25000 or more to get the accuracy and literal dimension of reproduction I was looking for and frankly I figure if I polish the old lantern in the 4345's at home correctly for long enough I will far surpass what I could reasonably afford. (I have already imho )

While the stock vintage JBls may not have the ultimate finesse and timbre in the upper midrange and top end or the pin point imaging there is something very real about they way work in terms of micro dynamic transient attack and that to me is the JBL sound. You can't beat cubic inches under the hood and I am sure with a selection of the newer drivers the JBLs would be right up there.


I have been invited back to hear a Mission system next week!

Ian

[LowPhreak]

Ian -

Try to get a chance to listen to some of the bigger PMC's. They can sound excellent, but PMC's pricing is ridiculous.

[greyhound]

mission is not my kind of speaker. They are the absolute apex when it comes to the true "english "sound. very warm and to warm for me.
I totaly understand yor comments on those speakers i've heard e few of them and the PCM is (if i had to choose) my favourite.

and to make it clear they are talking about All JBL's. They put down everything even the 250's.
The K2 doesnt go low enough bla bla.
But thats about it. They just keep shouting that they dont heve enough bottom So to speak.
A discussion on bass thats audible above 30hz seems impossible. JBl is boomie. (yeah right) It has the fastest and tightest bass ive ever had.

[LowPhreak]

and to make it clear they are talking about All JBL's. They put down everything even the 250's.
The K2 doesnt go low enough bla bla.
But thats about it. They just keep shouting that they dont heve enough bottom So to speak.
A discussion on bass thats audible above 30hz seems impossible. JBl is boomie. (yeah right) It has the fastest and tightest bass ive ever had.

Some of them might not care for ported bass, and I can accept that to a degree. But to make blanket statements like those is simply ignorant.

With some audiophiles, anything larger than a 10" woofer is just 'uncivilized', the assumption being that larger woofs can't be made to behave well.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ian -

Try to get a chance to listen to some of the bigger PMC's. They can sound excellent, but PMC's pricing is ridiculous.

I will.

But then I will be tempted to negative engineer them instead of an Array Series.

I would prefer God Given to sink into the 6332 LSR Cheeder which I have very nearly ordered and Turbo twin 2245h's with 800 big ones a side

[greyhound]

Some of them might not care for ported bass, and I can accept that to a degree. But to make blanket statements like those is simply ignorant.

With some audiophiles, anything larger than a 10" woofer is just 'uncivilized', the assumption being that larger woofs can't be made to behave well.

most of the speaker they rave about are from small dutch comanies that only excist for a few years. You wouldnt know about em.

fact is they all heve ported bass.
Exotic designs made from limestone and so fort.
they are convinced that some guy who lives in his attic can revolutionise the world of speakers and what we know about them.

[Ian Mackenzie]

mission is not my kind of speaker. They are the absolute apex when it comes to the true "english "sound. very warm and to warm for me.
I totaly understand yor comments on those speakers i've heard e few of them and the PCM is (if i had to choose) my favourite.

and to make it clear they are talking about All JBL's. They put down everything even the 250's.
The K2 doesnt go low enough bla bla.
But thats about it. They just keep shouting that they dont heve enough bottom So to speak.
A discussion on bass thats audible above 30hz seems impossible. JBl is boomie. (yeah right) It has the fastest and tightest bass ive ever had.

What in the way of real emotional music is below 30hz? I have discussed this with the inventer of Calsod and while most agree it tends to be additive to environmental cues it tells you more about the recording environment than the musical performance. ie Abbey Road Studios had problems with the Underground. The sensitive area seems to be above that (30hz) threshold but lets not argue the point over that.

Room dimensions have more to do with audible low bass than most UK HiFi nutters appreciate. Your and my bathroom is bigger than their lounge.

Get it.

Unless they are prepared to sit on their bar stool speakers I sincerley doubt if the silly boffins know what bass iit.

In any case suggest we meet at X marks the spot and go Duck hunting.

Its open season JBL haters.

[Ian Mackenzie]

There are some very nice Danish drivers out there but as one designer put it better results tend to come from getting the best out of a given driver than a so called land mark drivers.

I mean today I sidelined a nice system with a Scan Ring Radiator in favour of a soft textile coated dome tweeter (PCM).

It just spanked the others. I guess those guys listen to their customers.

[Harvey Gerst]

Thanks, for that. Bingo.

That place has many cross and too-often inexperienced but outspoken guys that think Rane is "top shelf". That said, there are some really great guys with worlds of experience who's insight is worth finding. Trouble is, like here, those with tenure come 'round less often as the community grows. The repetitiveness of it all wears on them. Gear reviews can be very useful as it is from some real-life trials. As well, there are many equip makers who watch the place (QSC, KT, etc) and chime in on technical questions but carefully avoid the promote...

I like to think that my forum over at the R/E/P section of Prosoundweb.com doesn't engage in JBL bashing. While I'm not a big fan of Mark Gander, I certainly applaud JBL for their consistently innovative designs over the years. Our studio has four JBL equipped rooms. And I have an all JBL 5.1 system in my living room.

[LowPhreak]

I would prefer God Given to sink into the 6332 LSR Cheeder which I have very nearly ordered and Turbo twin 2245h's with 800 big ones a side

I might possibly could live widdat.

I mean today I sidelined a nice system with a Scan Ring Radiator in favour of a soft textile coated dome tweeter (PCM).

You heathen, you!

[LowPhreak]

most of the speaker they rave about are from small dutch comanies that only excist for a few years. You wouldnt know about em.

I might not know some of them, but I have heard A.J. Van denHul's little 2-ways, and his amps. The speakers weren't bad, and the amps were "OK", but I think he should stick to making his wonderful cartridges.

I still have one of his Frog's with silver coils he custom made for moi. It will be used until the diamond wears out, then if he's still alive I'll send it back for a new tip.

[X_X]

this pair of Martin Lawrence speakers (made up name)

It really doesn't sound like a place for productive discussions when all they do is insult you or your brand.

I love JBL/Altec just as much as the guy, but you made a typing error, or something...

I think there are a lot of great speakers out there- each with it's own unique application that makes them excel. There are too many variables to quantify (some undiscovered) to make a categorical "poo poo" about anything audio. This, coupled with the fact our brains are put together in an infinate number of combinations, might explain why we all hear different things. I mean, have you seen American Idol auditions!?

In the end, some people will defend their brand just as violently as us JBL and Altec fans. Perhaps we have more in common with the "poo poo-ers" than we thought....

Nate.

[hjames]

The part in quotes was meant to be a playful role-play of a "Martin Lawrence speaker owner" poo-pooing another brand - it was tongue in cheek ... humour ... I figured naming them after a comedy actor would kinda be a giveaway and not offend any real brands.

I love JBL/Altec just as much as the guy, but you made a typing error, or something...

I think there are a lot of great speakers out there- each with it's own unique application that makes them excel. There are too many variables to quantify (some undiscovered) to make a categorical "poo poo" about anything audio. This, coupled with the fact our brains are put together in an infinate number of combinations, might explain why we all hear different things. I mean, have you seen American Idol auditions!?

In the end, some people will defend their brand just as violently as us JBL and Altec fans. Perhaps we have more in common with the "poo poo-ers" than we thought....

Nate.

I think part of the problem is that once you have a certain amount of money invested in your system, you pretty much have to defend its merits above and beyond all comers or you seem a bit ... ridiculous. Its kind of like a placebo effect - you just HAVE to hear a difference.

"I've spent $30,000 on this pair of Martin Lawrence speakers (made up name) and they are beyond your luddite Altec Model 19s (or JBL L300s or whatever). The sheer glisten of the violins heard in the post sonic range of 35ooo hz is just exquisite. I pooh pooh on your JBLs ... 20-20k is for dull-ears!"

Or some such silly thing.
It really doesn't sound like a place for productive discussions when all they do is insult you or your brand.