Room Placement and Bass LSR32 or LSR6332?

[Titanium Dome]

Yer driving them with a tube amp? Theres your problem...........
Additionally, the forward mid tends to detract from the bass performance, IMO.

A 30 watt tube amp isn't going to give it to you with these speakers. The bass performance is symptomatic.
Recommended amplifier power starts at 150 and goes to 1000 for these, and there is a reason.
Adequately powered will make these rather different from what you are likely getting now. It matters to these as much as any speaker I've messed with in awhile.

"Normal" placement rules apply, but if you use sufficient power, you'll get your bass. Did I mention that before?

I understand. He just needs to know that the LSR's will never get there with that kind of power. That amp is wrung out before the LSR's are slightly involved.
He bought the S2000, now he has to run premium in it.

He'd be hearing a different speaker with a strong high powered amp.

Seriously, Mike's right. Don't make him say it again.

[LowPhreak]

Seriously, mike's right up to a point. If the OP doesn't want to replace the amp he currently has for whatever reason(s), which seems to be the case, then other options are to be considered. Optimal placement as I've outlined is one of the best.

In fact, even with a higher-current amp, optimal placement is always a very important aspect. Greater power, enhancing an already undesireable room response, is counter-productive.

[Minatogawaman]

Thanks again for all the great input.

Here are my options in light of your sage advice:

I have the following SS amps:
Accuphase P-300 (massive with output around 200WPC in 4 Ohms)
Accupahse P-250 (slightly less massive with 150WPC)
Yamaha B-4 (Beefier Japanese-only model than M-4 with 200 WPOC 4 Ohms or 55 WPC Pure Class A)
Luxman L-58a integrated (about 180 WPC into 4 Ohms)

PRO AMPS (hooked into bi-amped JBL AS-2212s in the studio)
Electro-Voice Q66 amp with 600 wpc into 4 Ohms (highs)
Hafler SR-2600 amp 600 WPC into 4 Ohms (lows)

OPTION 1:
Move JBL L-80T powered by Accuphase P-250 or Klipsch Heresy's powered by a Yamaha integrated into the living room and hook them up to the 30-watt tube amp, Put LSR-32s on Accuphase P-250 or 300 upstairs.

OPTION 2:
Use the tube amp for the highs and mids on the LSRs and power the bottom end with one of my SS amps. Which do you recommend?

OPTION 3:
Somehow beg my wife to allow me to by a new high power amp. Those of you who suggest Option 3, please recommend the best amps for the LSR6332 that are affordable for middle class guy with a wonderful wife who has limited tolerance for more "audio stuff."

The other day I tried to convince her that records everywhere really add something special to the decor.

Thanks a million!!!

[Minatogawaman]

And, special thanks to Low Phreak for suggesting the most cost effective, and therefore wife-friendly, solution. I will work on placement first and see what that yields.

Minatogawaman

[LowPhreak]

OPTION 2:
Use the tube amp for the highs and mids on the LSRs and power the bottom end with one of my SS amps. Which do you recommend?

Given your list, it seems to me that you already have plenty of decent amps to drive the LSR's. You just need to do some re-arranging/experimenting.

[mikebake]

Put the Klipsch on the tube amp and try the Accuphase on the LSR's. I wouldn't bother with the tube amp on the mid/hi.

[Titanium Dome]

Based on my own experience the Hafler SR-2600 is the one. Even if you can only assign it to the LSRs temporarily, you owe it to yourself to hook it up to see what those speakers and that amp are all about.

[Minatogawaman]

OK, it looks like what I should do is a kind of Solid-State version of tube-rolling...maybe amp rolling and rolling the speakers around the room for optimal placement and putting them on better stands.

I had never considered hooking the big Hafler up to the LSRs, I guess in my mind that amp is more for PA. Certainly the LSR32s in the home theater sounded great on the Accuphase amps.

We are in the middle of moving in to our new house and my comments on the LSR6332 lack of bass response was based on the new living room. Once we get unpacked and set up I will be able to do the comparisons in a more systematic way.

One last thing, other than the high-efficiency rating of the Klipsch's, why would they be a better match for the ASL tube amp than the JBL L-80T? or for that matter the old JBL L56 I have out in the shed?

Thanks again. I am learning a lot.

[LowPhreak]

Reasonable assumptions can be made, but you just never know exactly what a given amp is going to sound like with a given speaker in a particular room. I have been surprised so many times when I thought that "Amp #1" would mate best with "Speaker A" than "Amp #2" would, only to find in reality that the "#2" amp was the better sounding.

What I'd do is stack all of the contending amps near each other, then just switch the speaker cables to the various amp output's for quick comparison. You might be able to eliminate one or two of them immediately, where others might take extended listening before you come to the best conclusion.

[Ian Mackenzie]

So are you guys saying the LSR 6332 definately needs a Sub?

Ian

[Minatogawaman]

Thanks all for the advice. Here is what I found while moving stuff around during our move to the new house. I kind of want the best system in the living room since that is where the (TT) turntable and records will be played. Originally, I wanted the tube amp with the TT (VPI Scoutmaster with Grado Master Ref Cart) for "vintage vibes" but that goal is looking more and more distant...

AMP ROLLING RESULTS

#1 Moved the Klipsch Heresy IIs and the ASL 1003DT tube amp into the new living/dining room. The room is still very live without any furniture, carpet, curtains etc. The Klipsch sound very clear with nice imaging...but the low end ain't makin' it and the high-end is over the top...they sound like PA speakers. I played Doc Watson through the tubes and the guitar and mandolin sounded pretty good in the neighboring room, but sitting right in front of them was like being laser-beamed with the horns. By the time the volume was up loud enough to get the bass on Doc's low strings the highs had annoyed me into switching to Handel's Water Music. This too was not pleasant. These Klipschs might be going on the auction block.

#2 Moved the Luxman L-58A integrated down to the old house living room and plugged in the LSR6332s. Tremendous improvement over the tube amp, great balance and detail, mind-blowing imaging (if the listener is in the right spot) with Schutz's "Ressurection" and D. Krall Jazz vocal SACD. I reckon that the Accuphase amps will sound even better, as they do on the LSR32s upstairs.

The bass with the Luxman is tighter than it was with the tube amp, but still not much LF "feeling," which makes sense because the 6332s are certainly not reaching below the 40Hz range.

Later, I brought down my lone LSR6312 sub from the studio and hooked it in. with the Lux and 6332s The sub really helps, in fact I would venture to say the 6332 needs the sub more than the LSR28p does with its teenie-weenie 8 inch drivers.

COMING NEXT
ASL 1003DT tube amp hooked into JBL L80-T and the L-96 in the new living room.

I'll get around to the Hafler and LSR6332 combo later too.

DISCUSSION
My wife approves of the amp rolling idea since it could lead to some speakers heading out the door permanently. I am now faced with the dilemma of what to hook into the tube amp if the L80-T and L96 dont sound so hot.

Any suggestions for appropriate speakers for a 30-watt EL34/12AU7 tube amp? My budget will probably be about $1500 for USED speakers. Someone recommended old Tannoys....

Minatogawaman

[LowPhreak]

The Heresy's can sound great if placed well. Put the smaller tube amp on them.

I can't believe you didn't have the LSR sub already with the '32's, AND the Luxman or Accuphase amps running them. It's kind of a no-brainer.

I don't think you'll need further advice.

[Minatogawaman]

Based on my own experience the Hafler SR-2600 is the one. Even if you can only assign it to the LSRs temporarily, you owe it to yourself to hook it up to see what those speakers and that amp are all about.

What are you using as a preamp with the SR-2600 and LSR32s? I am considering using my roland mixer, but would prefer to use a Hi-Fi preamp. The problem is 1/4" jack to RCA. Isn't this asking for trouble?

Thanks
Minato

[johnaec]

I use 1/4" to RCA all the time, even XLR to RCA in certain cases, and haven't had any troubles. XLR to RCA or 1/4" is a bigger problem, as XLR is usually low-Z impedance. Watch your gain structure, and you shouldn't have any problems.

John

[mikebake]

So are you guys saying the LSR 6332 definately needs a Sub?

Ian

Who said that?