Closing a thread

[Zilch]

That $2000 number you have there is completely un-realistic for a new guy jumping into this cold.

Hi, Rob.

I'm making the distinction between developing vs. just building according to designs documented here.

Several members have done this with considerable satisfaction, from all reports and indications.

In my experience, $2000 will build quite a nice pair of speakers; $5000, an order of magnitude better.

[For $1000, it's a bit tougher.... ]

[jim campbell]

$6387.83 in the year 2006 has the same "purchase power" as $1000 in the year 1965

so a system that cost 3 grand in 1965 should be around 20 g's today.i could live with that.that is why i have to wonder why 2 15's and a horn or 2 command the prices they do.after all most of the heavy r+d has been done years ago.those who already posess the high end vintage stuff may be reminded that with each passing year that it is harder and harder to find, repair,or even get it to your door in one piece.

[Zilch]

After all most of the heavy r+d has been done years ago.

Kinda looks like 476Be was designed from scratch, actually.

[Not likely I'll ever have one at hand to know for sure, tho.... ]

[4313B]

that is why i have to wonder why 2 15's and a horn or 2 command the prices they do

If they were priced lower they wouldn't sell. Priced as is, they are selling like crazy. JBL and all the suppliers are backed up with demand. Someone set the price just right.

after all most of the heavy r+d has been done years ago

That was all left behind. This is the new stuff. There is little comparison.

[duaneage]

Hi, Rob.

I'm making the distinction between developing vs. just building according to designs documented here.

Several members have done this with considerable satisfaction, from all reports and indications.

In my experience, $2000 will build quite a nice pair of speakers; $5000, an order of magnitude better.

[For $1000, it's a bit tougher.... ]

I've done three different designs/ projects and documented them as best I could.
One was a 4411 clone, strictly a copy of a classic. Another was a redesign of a inexpensive speaker, the L20T, so simple anyone with a circular saw and a jigsaw could build without any special software. And the third used a new available speaker ( control1 woofer) with a third party tweeter where the crossover network was explained easily.

Maybe we need more simple starter projects or midrange redesigns? Zilch has several great threads on Mini JBL speakers, Sealed box redesigns, and projects that explore combinations of drivers no one thought of.

DIY , for me, is the best area of LHS.

[Robh3606]

Hi, Rob.

I'm making the distinction between developing vs. just building according to designs documented here.

Several members have done this with considerable satisfaction, from all reports and indications.

In my experience, $2000 will build quite a nice pair of speakers; $5000, an order of magnitude better.

[For $1000, it's a bit tougher.... ]

Hello Zilch

All I was saying is that $2000 is not your real cost starting from scratch. It's actually a bit more when you consider the basic tools for cabinet building as an example. If you already have them it's one thing, if you don't it can add a good deal to the cost and can actually be the decission maker if you don't. Even building an existing design you still need measurement capabillity.

DIY , for me, is the best area of LHS.

Hello duaneage

I have my most fun doing DIY as well

Rob

[4313B]

projects that explore combinations of drivers no one thought of.

That you are aware of.

Maybe we need more simple starter projects or midrange redesigns?

DIY , for me, is the best area of LHS.

I'm surprised none of you have thought to set Zilch up with LEAP. He has the time to do all this stuff. You all should get him the tools. For less than 25 cents per forum member you all can get him set up. Do it. He's earned it.

LEAP-5 Complete
EnclosureShop and CrossoverShop Software 150-0555 $1,495.00

[jim campbell]

If they were priced lower they wouldn't sell. Priced as is, they are selling like crazy. JBL and all the suppliers are backed up with demand. Someone set the price just right.That was all left behind. This is the new stuff. There is little comparison.

but who is buying them?for whom is that a good price.it seems that unless i start buying winning lotto tickets i might as well forget about anything even close to that kind of money
in other words seawolf is right on the money.crap from circuit city or incredibly high priced stuff out of reach to all but the wealthy and the rest be damned.if thats the case i doubt that i will ever be enamored with harmon/jbl no matter what they donate here

[hjames]

but who is buying them?for whom is that a good price.it seems that unless i start buying winning lotto tickets i might as well forget about anything even close to that kind of money
in other words seawolf is right on the money.crap from circuit city or incredibly high priced stuff out of reach to all but the wealthy and the rest be damned.if thats the case i doubt that i will ever be enamored with harmon/jbl no matter what they donate here

Well - maybe its an assessment of the new speaker market.
If we aren't in the market for $60,000 - what WOULD we spend on new speakers?

How many folks are going to buy, say, $25,000 soeaker systems?
How many folks are going to buy, say, $10,000 speaker systems?

Finally, how many of us would drop, say $5,000 on a speaker system - new or old?

And what kind of annual sales does it take to keep the JBL division solvent?

[jim campbell]

brand loyalty to jb was built on the big sound one got from the vintage systems.the stuff they sell at circuit city is just one of many polite,unobtrusive speakers.they sound largely the same as a hundred other brands.we bought them before because they stood out in a crowd.i dont see that now.the point is that if they now are being marketed to only to the wealthy few why should we consider them worthy of our loyalty.maybe we can be like vw rabbit drivers with the mercedes key chains,and wear jb tee shirts when we listen to our chinese jbl systems

[hjames]

brand loyalty to jb was built on the big sound one got from the vintage systems.the stuff they sell at circuit city is just one of many polite,unobtrusive speakers.they sound largely the same as a hundred other brands.we bought them before because they stood out in a crowd.i dont see that now.the point is that if they now are being marketed to only to the wealthy few why should we consider them worthy of our loyalty.maybe we can be like vw rabbit drivers with the mercedes key chains,and wear jb tee shirts when we listen to our chinese jbl systems

Again - like Giskard says, its a price point thing.

I have my L36s that I bought new in 1976, so I consider myself one of the enlightened from the old days.
And they were the cheapies in the line! I paid $400 for the pair back then - so that's the equiv of, say, $2500 or so for a stereo pair today?

Better speakers would be more - like I said before - $5,000 or so?

I really think the number of folks who would spend $5000 on just stereo speakers these days (remember, they still need an amp and the other sources) is a smaller percentage of the general population than it once was.
Most folks just want sound from unobtrusive small speakers - and it costs a lot more to make "audiophile" speakers when its such a small market (e.g, cost per unit vs total number of units). Most folks are happy with "Good enough" ...

If small, cheap chinese-made speakers is what most of the market wants, JBL has to follow that market to sell enough speakers in volume to maintain their business. Its just common sense.

And this is a REALLY old discussion here ... sigh ...

$638.783 in the year 2006 has the same "purchase power" as $100.00 in the year 1965

[4313B]

but who is buying them?for whom is that a good price.it seems that unless i start buying winning lotto tickets i might as well forget about anything even close to that kind of money
in other words seawolf is right on the money.crap from circuit city or incredibly high priced stuff out of reach to all but the wealthy and the rest be damned.if thats the case i doubt that i will ever be enamored with harmon/jbl no matter what they donate here

I think you should write your congressman or representative lamenting the demise of the middleclass and its buying power.

maybe we can be like vw rabbit drivers with the mercedes key chains,and wear jb tee shirts when we listen to our chinese jbl systems

There you go! Now you're getting the hang of it.

[jim campbell]

I think you should write your congressman or representative lamenting the demise of the middleclass and its buying power.
There you go! Now you're getting the hang of it.

instead of lying awake nights dreaming up smug one liners for those opinions you dont agree with perhaps its time to obey your own instincts and retreat back into the tech pages you crave.my opinion is as valid as yours.

[Thom]

An awful high percentage of JBL owners were probably do it yourselfers through the sixties. If you did JBL any other way it was incredibly expensive. JBL was proud of their drivers and putting them in the customers hands was one way of showing the difference between JBL and anything else. Put a Bozac driver in one hand and a JBL in the other. There was no comparison. It wasn't even Maytag and hotpoint, It was way beyond that. Good for them that they have learned to be more profitable but I no longer know that because it's a JBL it's good. It's more like Just because it's JBL doesn't mean it's crap. I can't automatically lay down a stack of bills for some JBL stuff without knowing something about it or knowing the salesman or having some knowledge. It's to bad that they didn't break it down into JBL and "made by JBL" but they went the way they went and that's how it is. If JBL doesn't have any special interest in this sight then why (real question) does giskard get his knickers all in a knot over some issues? I thought it was over them being benevolent and wanting them to stay that way. Sure it's stupid to expect JBL to act as though we are in a socialist economy but that doesn't explain taking some things so personal. It's not for me to judge it's just that every time I think the picture is finally coming into focus someone bumps into the tripod again or something.

[4313B]

instead of lying awake nights dreaming up smug one liners for those opinions you dont agree with perhaps its time to obey your own instincts and retreat back into the tech pages you crave.my opinion is as valid as yours.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Your response to my post is completely whacked. But that's the main problem here, if people don't spell everything out in lurid detail then some people are bound to miss the point. Let's get a show of hands. Anyone else confused at my post?

Here is your post:

but who is buying them?for whom is that a good price.it seems that unless i start buying winning lotto tickets i might as well forget about anything even close to that kind of money
in other words seawolf is right on the money.crap from circuit city or incredibly high priced stuff out of reach to all but the wealthy and the rest be damned.if thats the case i doubt that i will ever be enamored with harmon/jbl no matter what they donate here

Here is my point another way:

The gap between the rich and the poor is widening. Middleclass buying power is shrinking. People shop at Walmart and support companies like Walmart because doing so fits in with their reduced buying power. Did you watch the Democratic Party's response to the Bush State of the Union? If you had, then you'd know exactly where my comment came from. If you watch Charlie Rose then you'll know where my response came from. If you watch Lou Dobbs then you'll know where my response came from. You would also know that my response was in direct support of yours. Instead, you gave your response not one iota of thought, rather you're worried about what I do at night. It's funny.

You're the third person that has suggested I shut my mouth and simply post technical data. Why don't you start a poll to that effect. Many a person has asked me in private why I bother rolling in the mud with you people. You really, truly aren't worth my time, and you reinforce that fact every time you create posts like this.