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  1. #31
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    the name of the forum is HERITAGE. It really does not conjure up an image of interest in current products. From what I have seen, the ratio of owning new JBLs to vintage ones here is very small.

    I was initially offended when someone went off on the JBL=junk, but loud threat , but in the current marketplace, JBL is either cheap mass market products or stratospheric un affordable high end speakers or cheap iPod portable speakers. This is why we seem to enjoy the speakers from JBL's golden era.

    My supposition is that James would roll over in his grave if he saw some of the current offerings.
    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
    As much as I like Don, and appreciate his making of this site, I believe that the result of the project should be available to other members.
    Maybe it will be. Who knows?

  3. #33
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    My supposition is that James would roll over in his grave if he saw some of the current offerings.
    I sincerely doubt that. I think he would be more than a little impressed with what became of his company. I think he would also be impressed with the cost vs. quality/performance ratios in these Best Buy lines that everyone seems so keen on putting down. I am also sure he would understand why they are there. To offer good performance at a reasonable price that is competitive with the competition to ensure their continued financial success. I purchased my first JBL's in the early 70's. They were expensive as hell compared to the competition at the time. The good stuff always is and frankly the lower lines are damn good for the money you pay for them.

    JMHO Rob

  4. #34
    Senior Member jim campbell's Avatar
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    [quote=SEAWOLF97;147715]the name of the forum is HERITAGE. It really does not conjure up an image of interest in current products. From what I have seen, the ratio of owning new JBLs to vintage ones here is very small.
    but why is that?is it no longer possible to duplicate that sound with new parts?only so many of the vintage items exist and that number is always diminishing.
    I was initially offended when someone went off on the JBL=junk, but loud threat , but in the current marketplace, JBL is either cheap mass market products or stratospheric un affordable high end speakers or cheap iPod portable speakers. This is why we seem to enjoy the speakers from JBL's golden era.
    my point exactly
    My supposition is that James would roll over in his grave if he saw some of the current offerings.
    no argument here

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    the name of the forum is HERITAGE.
    Yeah but we all know that doesn't stop a whole bunch of people posting a whole bunch of nonsense here.
    For instance, I think some spammers just posted moments ago.

  6. #36
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    I purchased my first JBL's in the early 70's. They were expensive as hell compared to the competition at the time. The good stuff always is and frankly the lower lines are damn good for the money you pay for them.

    JMHO Rob
    In my reading the 1954 audio mags, I found Hartsfields at about $600 new. Just ran that thru a converter that says that is a 2007 equivalent of $4500 , for 1. No stereo in those days.

    I just opened a JBL China pair. While they sound OK, they look as if not designed to last longer than 5 years. Glue blocks already loose and flopping around. Black ash vinyl crap finish and really nothing to distinguish them from all the other Circuit City speakers.
    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

  7. #37
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    In my reading the 1954 audio mags, I found Hartsfields at about $600 new. Just ran that thru a converter that says that is a 2007 equivalent of $4500 , for 1. No stereo in those days.

    I just opened a JBL China pair. While they sound OK, they look as if not designed to last longer than 5 years. Glue blocks already loose and flopping around. Black ash vinyl crap finish and really nothing to distinguish them from all the other Circuit City speakers.
    You know, we have had this exact conversation 30 or 40 times over the years... isn't it getting a little old?

    Of all the vintage brands that are still with us, JBL and Klipsch are the two most successful and they both sell tons of rather anonymous black vinyl boxes to stay profitable... profitability was always Mr. Lansing's biggest problem. I applaud his uncompromising approach, but in the end it did him in.


    Widget

    BTW: We are way off topic once again.

  8. #38
    Senior Member jim campbell's Avatar
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    i just picked up some jbl chinese venue series monitors at future shop(canuck circuit city)for 150.cdn open box returns for about 100 off retail.while they are for the fourth line system to watch movies in bed i think the used psb's i got for 25 bucks sound way better.if a set of 4350'sold for under a g note in the 60's how much should they sell for new in todays dollars.

  9. #39
    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim campbell View Post
    i just picked up some jbl chinese venue series monitors at future shop(canuck circuit city)for 150.cdn open box returns for about 100 off retail.while they are for the fourth line system to watch movies in bed i think the used psb's i got for 25 bucks sound way better.if a set of 4350'sold for under a g note in the 60's how much should they sell for new in todays dollars.

    $6387.83 in the year 2006 has the same "purchase power" as $1000 in the year 1965
    “If you think that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard,
    just wait a couple minutes!”

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    the name of the forum is HERITAGE. It really does not conjure up an image of interest in current products. From what I have seen, the ratio of owning new JBLs to vintage ones here is very small.

    I was initially offended when someone went off on the JBL=junk, but loud threat , but in the current marketplace, JBL is either cheap mass market products or stratospheric un affordable high end speakers or cheap iPod portable speakers. This is why we seem to enjoy the speakers from JBL's golden era.

    My supposition is that James would roll over in his grave if he saw some of the current offerings.
    What is your proposed cut off date? If I'm reading you correctly, then moderators should close threads that don't conform to what you are characterizing as "heritage." Perhaps we could say that 1979 is the cut off of the golden era?

    A better argument would be to only allow discussions of products produced before Mr. Lansing's death in 1949. Moderators please delete all threads discussing products after 1949.


    Or we could follow the site's purpose as posted in the introduction:

    Our mission is to record the accomplishments, history and legacy of James Bullough Lansing. While his name may not be known to many, the legacy of his work touches millions of people. That legacy is the genesis of the loudspeaker industry. He was instrumental in the development of the some of the first successful loudspeaker products. The quality of his work resulted in the Lansing name being associated with the finest in sound reproduction technology. His name is carried on in the corporate identity of two companies, JBL and Altec Lansing. The purpose of this site is to pay homage to the accomplishments of the man and his namesake companies.
    The last two sentences indicate that the heritage is alive in the companies that succeeded him. AFAIK, one of those companies is still very active and carrying forth that heritage today.

    If not, then Giskard should retract all the stuff that he posts that improves and advances the application of that heritage, and Don shouldn't go to Japan to see $60k speakers, and there should be no Project May, and I shouldn't write about the Performance Series or god forbid the E50, because none of it is heritage if we are only looking backwards to see what Jim Lansing wrought.

    I'm a little long-winded here, and I hope it doesn't sound harsh. If so, I apologize. I'm totally cool with those who love the golden era, and I even have some of those and enjoy them. I'm not cool with the idea that the golden era is the only good era or even the best era. There's room for all of us to appreciate the legacy that appeals most to us.

  11. #41
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Strictly read, "Heritage" goes more to the tradition, i.e., the concepts embodied in vintage designs, than to the early implementations themselves. In a substantial sense, a passion for vintage "correctness," while laudable from a historical preservation perspective, runs contrary to the presumably larger objective of quality sound reproduction, so much so that the result is easily recognized as a separate genre. I hesitate to attach the label "Old-fashioned" to it, but that may in most respects be apt.

    While it can be difficult to discern the Lansing heritage in today's low-end offerings, it is certainly there, evolved in response to and in accomodation of the contemporary marketplace. Adapt or die; the vintage beasts are now at the curb for the taking. What's at Best Buy is a part of the Lansing heritage as well.

    On the other hand, I have particular difficulty with the continuing cavil in these forums as to the absence of quality contemporary options but at stratospheric expense. Not so. With a little bit of effort, anyone here can build for themselves, using JBL's latest technologies and highest quality drivers, first class systems that fully embody the Lansing heritage and sound better than much of what is available in the marketplace. These forums point the way, in considerable detail.

    "Yeah, but I don't want to have to build it. I just want it available to purchase...."

    Well, it IS available; ~$10K is the entry level.

    "$2000 is my limit."

    I can't help you, until you change your attitude about DIY....

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    You know, we have had this exact conversation 30 or 40 times over the years... isn't it getting a little old?
    This was hit on this the other night and the conclusion was that it just isn't worth questioning anymore. They are allowed to have the same arguments thousands of times as long as those arguments don't lead to personal attacks.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Giskard should retract all the stuff that he posts
    I've suggested a global delete time and again to no avail. Nothing would please me more than to delete all 7,745 posts. I ask for it every Christmas and birthday. Instead I get a package of wool socks and a screwdriver set from Sears.

  14. #44
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard View Post
    Instead I get a package of wool socks and a screwdriver set from Sears.

  15. #45
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    On the other hand, I have particular difficulty with the continuing cavil in these forums as to the absence of quality contemporary options but at stratospheric expense. Not so. With a little bit of effort, anyone here can build for themselves, using JBL's latest technologies and highest quality drivers, first class systems that fully embody the Lansing heritage and sound better than much of what is available in the marketplace. These forums point the way, in considerable detail.
    Hello Zilch

    I also share your enthusiasm for DIY however there are many hidden costs. You are looking at it from the perspective of someone who has the tools in hand. That $2000 number you have there is completely un-realistic for a new guy jumping into this cold. That would just cover your CLIO and the Behringer. It wouldn't begin to cover your time, let alone materials for cabinets and crossovers. Then you have your shop tools for cabinets and potential software costs for tuning and crossover design. Just because you then have the rudimentary tools doesn't mean you will be able to successfully pull a design off. I am not trying to dis-wade anyone from DIY, I would like to see more of it. Just want to be sure anyone who's goes this road realizes it isn't all flowers and roses. It can be hard work to get things right and financial commitment for the tools needed should be considered as well.

    Rob

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