Closing a thread

[jim campbell]

Yea, me too, and me too.

(w/ edits)

We struggle with the Search function in vBulletin. Rest assured, it is no worse here than on other forums that use this software.

These forums, being near Blogs, are poorly organized (if at-all...) databases which grow exponentially, and typically without strict adherence to topic. This latter point makes Searching quite memory intensive, and Search-string dependant. Searching is optimized by knowing the context the topic was most meaningfully discussed. Those who have been here longer have a chance at getting "higher relevant hits"; others struggle with excessive mundane hits.

The only advice I have is to keep modifiying your search string in increasingly insightful/mundane ways (yes, I meant "mundane", because in this format you can only imagine how topics come-up!).

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Lastly, this place is really only worthwhile if we all try and stay close to the curb - stay on-topic / don't play in traffic. There are plenty other places in the WWW to explore our other opinions and interests. Here, if we can obviate the pedestrian topics and stay on stuff specific to advance our understanding of audio, acoustics and proper application of JBL engineering our efforts are so much more fulfilling. All the rest we are not well schooled-in, and suck at.

i like to think that non audio subjects can be discussed here and should be as this is a forum where one might find like minded people to discuss things with.if i was ever invited to another members home for a listening session and the only topic on offer was audio it might get old after a while.this forum attracts people who tend to be intelligent,educated,and informed on a wide variety of topics and that is why i log on.that being said i appreciate the work that the moderators and administrators do.many thanx

[hjames]

i like to think that non audio subjects can be discussed here and should be as this is a forum where one might find like minded people to discuss things with.if i was ever invited to another members home for a listening session and the only topic on offer was audio it might get old after a while.this forum attracts people who tend to be intelligent,educated,and informed on a wide variety of topics and that is why i log on.that being said i appreciate the work that the moderators and administrators do.many thanx

See, the problem with offtopic online forums, compared to a discussion with another person in their home, is that there are so few indicators as you are speaking. Face to face, you can see folks tense up and cross their arms and give all those indicators that you know means you are touching on delicate ground. Face to face, you probably shift perspective or direction without a conscious thought - its just part of the art of conversation.
Besides, face to face, you can tell if someone has been drinking or whatever and take that into consideration, too.

With online forums there are no warning indicators - no funny voices or even inflection of the voice to indicate humor or parody, its just words on a screen. Often time the conversation goes on in bits and pieces over hours days or weeks - some threads here are years long!

Posts are easily taken out of context, or angry posts shoved in your face in a way that a few moments thought or some time to cool down first would avoid. Who would yell like that in someone's face?.

But - there is no threat of getting punched out in cyberspace ... tempers flare and it gets real mean real fast ...

Really, there are plenty of other places to discuss politics, religion, war, peace - all that hot-button stuff that gets so quickly out of shape here.

Heck - audiophiles can get into full blown war over tubes vs silicon amps -
why do we even need the offtopic places?
In the short year or so I've been here I've too often seen bad feelings from those "off-topic" threads quickly drift into discussions in other areas here!

[Thom]

Oh boy. I think I hear that this sight exists at the benevolence of a major corporation, the members of which do not all agree it is a worthwhile endeavor or experiment. If that is how it is I guess that's fair. I just didn't get that impression when I first encountered this site. I guess if JBL foots the bill and therefore (I could still be reading things wrong, I do that real well) considers it theirs they really do have a right to determine what should be discussed here. Thing is I haven't really noticed them doing that, and one poster spent forever screaming shit about JBL, over a woofer warranty where they were probably foolish not to take care of him, but probably owed him nothing. But I don't get the idea of stewing over where the sight is going rather than just making a managerial statement. And, Giskard, unless I'm wrong again, some of what you have to say is straight from JBL and I didn't realize that at first and couldn't understand what seemed like proclamations. I really didn't know that there were "secret formulas" kept under lock and key. Like at Coke or KFC I really thought that was all made up by marketing when it came to audio, tho I'll believe you if I should. I get the impression that your saying that with some common sense on our part if sound is a bit of a hobby this sight can be worthwhile but if we piss off or make the wrong people nervous then at the very least no new information is likely to reach this sight till long after it's common knowledge. Okay. Makes one want to ask more questions but doesn't leave one feeling like they can. Oh I don't even post anywhere else currently but it seams if one wants to encourage someone to post about them on another sight the surest and quickest way to encourage it would be to ban them from here. Should just about guarantee it.

[Titanium Dome]

Thom

I think you missed the general point, though you make some good observations in the process. This site really belongs to a very small group ( http://www.audioheritage.org/html/in...who-we-are.htm ) who have registered, created, and maintain it with the help of a couple of others. Then there's a steering committee of nine (though one person seems to be on it twice), an administrator group of four, and a moderator group of seven.

On the intro page of the site

http://www.audioheritage.org/intro.htm

you'll find this explanation:

This site is a nonprofit endeavor that is supported by the contributions of its readers and web hosting services donated by CSD Internet. While we have the generous support of Harman International in providing information and access to their key staff for interviews, we are not affiliated with this or any other corporation. The costs of maintaining this site are borne by the developers and the donations of our readers. If you are interested becoming a financial contributor, please click the "Donate" button on the left.

[Rolf]

The key is always under the carpet, or is locked in a chest. To open the chest you got to have a key. To find the key you have to look under the carpet.

That is how it is. As I have stated before, the inner circle knows. Guess you all have seen and understood this by now.

[Titanium Dome]

Harman's role here has been to share information and resources that we couldn't get any other way. There is no simple reason for them to do this, like increasing sales (most here don't buy new products) or creating new markets (most of us don't go out and market new JBL products to our friends). Nevertheless, out of respect for the tradition of Lansing products, respect for the family, and respect for some key members of the site, they share many things here.

Of course, Harman employees come here from time to time, and that provides some insight and even some inspiration for them, but it also means that they see the cheap shots and unreasonable expectations of people who post here. Since I'm a big fan of JBL's new gear, I get pissed when its treated unfairly, so I can only imagine what it must be like to have worked so hard and put so much into a product only to see it panned by someone who's never seen it, never heard it, and hasn't put a dime in JBL's coffers in years. That has to be tough to take.

Nonetheless, Harman continues to favor the site and some of its contributors with amazing openness, and that trickles down to the rest of us. They can change their minds anytime they want to.

[Titanium Dome]

Harmon does not hold any kind of financial interest in the site. That's why guys like you and me must donate from time to time. I try to do at least $25 a few times a year. This money keeps the site operating, and it also offsets costs on special projects.

It's true that Harman contributed some state-of-the-art components for the Project May endeavor, but there are costs that go far beyond that. Many members are donating time and materials for other parts of the project. Since I'm not part of the build team, I can give give money to help the project along, and so can others.

When the Project May is complete, we will all benefit from the knowledge that is shared from it. Even Harman might benefit, though I suspect if we knew everything Harman already knows, the project would be done by now. The key is that they are allowing the team to try. That's pretty cool.

[Titanium Dome]

One of the things I liked about your post was

I get the impression that your saying that with some common sense on our part if sound is a bit of a hobby this sight can be worthwhile but if we piss off or make the wrong people nervous then at the very least no new information is likely to reach this sight till long after it's common knowledge. Okay. Makes one want to ask more questions but doesn't leave one feeling like they can. Oh I don't even post anywhere else currently but it seams if one wants to encourage someone to post about them on another sight the surest and quickest way to encourage it would be to ban them from here. Should just about guarantee it.

There's some truth here, especially the last part. That's right on.

As for the part about ticking someone off so that we lose the "inside track" that's always a possibility. Of course, it's a greater concern to those who are insiders than it is for those of us who are not. Your name and my name aren't on any of the lists in "Thom, part 1" and probably never will be, so we're outside by default. That's okay, really, because we have less to worry about and less to lose if things go sour.

Think about it from the standpoint of those who have established and maintained friendships with people at JBL/Harman. It can be hard to defend the people you hang out with sometimes, right? These folks with relationships at JBL/Harman might have a tough time explaining some of the crazy stuff that's posted here when a contact from Harman calls to ask why their brand new product is getting the shit kicked out of it by people who've never heard it and who think that 25 year old gear is inherently better without any critical examination being done. "We're sharing this information with these people why?"

It always helps to try to see as many sides to an issue as possible.

[Rolf]

Harmon does not hold any kind of financial interest in the site. That's why guys like you and me must donate from time to time. I try to do at least $25 a few times a year. This money keeps the site operating, and it also offsets costs on special projects.

It's true that Harman contributed some state-of-the-art components for the Project May endeavor, but there are costs that go far beyond that. Many members are donating time and materials for other parts of the project. Since I'm not part of the build team, I can give give money to help the project along, and so can others.

When the Project May is complete, we will all benefit from the knowledge that is shared from it. Even Harman might benefit, though I suspect if we knew everything Harman already knows, the project would be done by now. The key is that they are allowing the team to try. That's pretty cool.

Maybe I should say: "I rest my case", but I do not agree that no LHL member will buy new JBL products. I am sure thy will, but the product must good and at a affordable price.

Regarding the "project May" I do not really know what to say, but it seems to me that it should be closed. Nothing is going on, and I do not want my donations waisted.

[Titanium Dome]

Maybe I should say: "I rest my case", but I do not agree that no LHL member will buy new JBL products. I am sure thy will, but the product must good and at a affordable price.

Regarding the "project May" I do not really know what to say, but it seems to me that it should be closed. Nothing is going on, and I do not want my donations waisted.

Rolf, I understand your frustration. I wrote "most here don't buy"; I did not write "no one here buys." I believe there are good products at excellent price points right now.*

*In fact several members bought new products in the past few years, like the Performance Series, Studio L Series, and even the Northridge E Series. However, those who purchased Studio Ls didn't get the warmest reception, and the guy who posted about the E50 (me ) got some pretty robust rebukes.

[Zilch]

Regarding the "project May" I do not really know what to say, but it seems to me that it should be closed. Nothing is going on, and I do not want my donations waisted.

The cabinets are currently under fabrication.

You're not keeping up with the project progress, apparently....

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...156#post147156

[Rolf]

The cabinets are currently under fabrication.

You're not keeping up with the project progress, apparently....

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...156#post147156

Well, I have heard about this project since I joined the forum. Can't find out when I joined, but it must have been about the year 2000 or so. The "old" forum. Since that I have been following, but not "keeping up" in details about the project. Now I can, if I wish, read all about it, but must admit I am not doing it. My primary interest is not this project. I just think that this is taking too long. I have no idea how much work it takes to build a new speaker, and I can only hope that the result will be great, and that the forum members can order the final product.

[Mr. Widget]

My primary interest is not this project.

Even though I have spent several hundred hours directly and indirectly working on the project, I must admit it isn't my primary concern either.

I just think that this is taking too long.

I think we can all agree on that.

I have no idea how much work it takes to build a new speaker...

Then how can you possibly have an opinion on whether it has taken enough time or too much time? The fact is, we weren't going for something as simple as say a pair of 4343s... if we were they would be done. Since everyone who has generously offered their time also have real world obligations the process has been slowed significantly... sometimes siting on hold for months at a time, but rest assured it isn't dead and I for one have every anticipation of listening to the finished product in Don's living room at some point down the road.

...and I can only hope that the result will be great...

...as do we all.

...and that the forum members can order the final product.

I doubt that will ever be a possibility. The primary intent of this project was to create something special for Don who has worked very hard to make Lansing Heritage a reality... as a side benefit there will be some trickle down knowledge... and perhaps some members will attempt to recreate part or all of the system.


Widget

[Rolf]

Hi Widget.

I am sure that you have invested a lot of time, and probably money in the project. Still it is not your primary object.

The time for this project ... well, as you say ....

How can I possible say ... etc ... well, the thing I have done, building speakers took me about 7 days. I must admit that this was a "kit", but the result was fine. Not in the JBL finish ... brrr.
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So .... all the time and money is just for Don? I really have to say: godom.

As much as I like Don, and appreciate his making of this site, I believe that the result of the project should be available to other members.

I have build one(1) unique thing ... better that everything else. I like to share it, don't you think that the result of the "may" should be given to others?

[jim campbell]

Harmon does not hold any kind of financial interest in the site. That's why guys like you and me must donate from time to time. I try to do at least $25 a few times a year. This money keeps the site operating, and it also offsets costs on special projects.

It's true that Harman contributed some state-of-the-art components for the Project May endeavor, but there are costs that go far beyond that. Many members are donating time and materials for other parts of the project. Since I'm not part of the build team, I can give give money to help the project along, and so can others.

When the Project May is complete, we will all benefit from the knowledge that is shared from it. Even Harman might benefit, though I suspect if we knew everything Harman already knows, the project would be done by now. The key is that they are allowing the team to try. That's pretty cool.

i would love to hear from harman regarding their future efforts.if new gear that sounds like the vintage that we all know and love were available i would be clawing at the door.but not for a hundred grand.with vintage and all the maintenance issues,shipping,and the fact that none of it is getting any younger,soon there just wont be enough to go around.would harman consider marketing limited runs of of some of their more successful designs with updated drivers.at least then you could be fairly confident that you would have a reliable system for a decade or three.even if we could get the drivers new and build our own boxes..............