Tube amps that can be hooked up to TVs?

[hjames]

Yes, my receiver has those out puts.

Do you think it is not worth the gain?

Am I really not experiencing my speakers' potential?

Thanks.

-Storm.

I dunno - I gave up on tubes years ago!
But its really a personal thing - its all your tastes ...

BMWCCA said that you can change the sound (tone?) of your audio more easily using EQ than by going to specialized amps.

I'd tend to agree that using a QUALITY EQ (e.g, one that doesn't have noisy gain stages to degrade your overall sound) is probably a better way to change sound. Look at all the stuff Zilch and the rest of them do with RTA (Real Time Analysers) to visually SEE the sound coming out of their speakers and EQ it to fit their tastes better.

Besides - Tubes age - a new tube sounds different than an older tube - and some folks will tell you Russian tubes sound better than vintage RCA or whatever the current flavor is.

Really - everything in audio has "a flavor" (it shouldn't, but usually it does). - the trick is to not gum up the sound by putting too many things in the signal path.

And personally, I try to avoid the more expensive snake oil - its a pricey lesson!

[louped garouv]

you could try biamping the speakers and pushing the horns with the tubes and using SS on the woofers...

I do that ocassionally, but honestly I like the Altec 802s and JBL 075s better on my Crown D-75s than I do on the heathkit.....


granted, maybe if I wnet and spent too much money on a very very nice old tube amp.....

[SUPERBEE]

Ummmm.....

I have been running those Santana's with both my Fisher 500-C tube receiver and a little Pioneer 737 SS unit and of course it sounds better with tubes.

I enjoy anything from the 60s to the early 90s.

I guess tubes would not be suited for me.

I was only trying to understand the difference between SS and Tubes, because I have only heard good things about tubes and valencias. But, that might be because they listen to the stuff you mentioned.

Thank you for the insight.

-Storm.

[BMWCCA]

Ummmm.....

I have been running those Santana's with both my Fisher 500-C tube receiver and a little Pioneer 737 SS unit and of course it sounds better with tubes.

I know you're kidding (I hope?!), but just so no Gen-X's get the wrong idea, isn't the Fisher 500 more than double the power of the Pioneer 737?

[moldyoldy]

Doncha' have to have a tube-type TV to be able to connect to a tube audio amp?

Storm, I'm gonna break character briefly and give you the straight doodoo instead of jerking your chain. For your Altecs, you should convert to biamping, period. Ditch the XO and buy a 2-way active crossover. Use whatever SS amp you use now for the 416s, they need the damping of SS in those big, vented boxes. Buy either a couple of monos or a stereo tube amp of modest power (5-20W) to run the horns, where the extra harmonics of tubes has a subjectively pleasing effect. Do this, and then I'll believe you'll keep those Vals for life! Less than $1K ought to get you there nicely, or any amount over that you're willing to pay.

Be aware that tube gear is like a Harley, in that you better keep your tools handy. For a newbie, the only way to start is with an amp you can either go and listen to, or audition for yourself for a few days. 'Restored' is almost always preferrable to 'modified'. I'll bet there's an old geezer near you that restores old gear for fun, and also 'cause he knows how it works. That's the kinda deal you should look for, and if you succeed, remember to be nice to the old guy, after all, he used to know everything too.

[BMWCCA]

Be aware that tube gear is like a Harley

Heavy, slow, and underpowered? Or do they also leak? Or maybe they're only for short people? Is there a hi-fi equivalent to the RUB (Rich Urban Biker)? They must be the ones that pay $1000/ft. for speaker wire. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[SUPERBEE]

The Fisher 500-C is rated at 30WPC and the 737 is 35WPC
Both sound good through the Altecs but the Fisher does sound better, of course.

I know you're kidding (I hope?!), but just so no Gen-X's get the wrong idea, isn't the Fisher 500 more than double the power of the Pioneer 737?

[BMWCCA]

Okay, I thought it was more. My parents had a 400 and I figured it was 30WPC. My SA-1000 was rated at 75W/channel so I guess I got confused. However, at least Peter Breuninger calls the 500-C 35WPC here: http://stereophile.com/historical/605fisher/index.html :dont-know

In my recollection, the D150 felt more powerful than the SA-1000 I traded-in on the Crown, and the DC300 blew them both away, all playing the 030s. But that was 1974 and I couldn't afford the DC300. I still have that D150 though! That was the start of my pooh-poohing tooobs. If only the Ruskies were making those huge RCA tubes back then, I might still be a Fisher owner. Naah, then I'd probably not have a PS-400. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....

[Storm]

How do I biamp?

Do I just take the existing crossover out and connect the wires from the woofer and horn to the new one?

What is so wrong with the stock crossover?

So, run the woofer through the Harman/Kardon and buy one or two tube amps and run the horns through those?

Thank you for all of your help.

-Storm.

[hjames]

How do I biamp?

Do I just take the existing crossover out and connect the wires from the woofer and horn to the new one?

What is so wrong with the stock crossover?

So, run the woofer through the Harman/Kardon and buy one or two tube amps and run the horns through those?

Thank you for all of your help.

-Storm.

Welcome grasshopper, to the world of more and more gear.

To Biamp you need an external crossover - they are made by Beringer and other folks - there are even JBL/UREI models. With 2-way Altecs you just need to split the signal into 2 parts - so you just need a 2 way external crossover. You don't use the existing crossover in the speaker cabinet - that, and its controls on the front of your speaker are no longer used.

An external crossover connects to your preamp output to split that low-level signal into a Low frequency band, and a High frequency band (Stereo, of course). For each channel, (Left/Right) you feed the low output to a high power amp, usually solid state. Takes more power to move the big woofer than it does to work the tweeter.
Your newfound tube friends will recommend using a tube amp to feed the horns, but like BMWCCA told me, you can get a nice solid-state amp to run the tweeters. You might even use a pair of Crown Amps - they are pretty good(lots of folks here like them). But I do believe the Altecs are pretty efficient - it doesn't take a lot of power to make them work. You might want to look at Crown amps - say - a D60 or D75 to run the tweeters, and a D150 to run the woofers. Get someone knowledgable to make specific comments - some models of Crown amps are good, some not so recommended.
Someone will tell you what crossover frequency is appropriate for your speakers - I don't know Altecs well enough to venture a guess.

But one final thing to consider.
Quality sound costs money, so any parts you add to your system need to be very high quality as well.
Every device in your signal path is capable of adding noise.
When you have a CD player feeding a receiver, its mostly those two points of possible audio degradation
(assuming your speakers and their passive crossovers are in good shape).
But when you biamp - suddenly, you are adding more devices.
First - that Active Crossover is a major place where noise can be generated.
Some folks here like Beringers, but I've heard other folks here blame them as a real point of noise in a system.
Folks like the JBL/UREI crossovers - but I've folks say they are older tech (80s?) with known design flaws and problems.

Remember that what works for commercial sound reinforcement use may not be what you want to use in your home.

[moldyoldy]

Heavy, slow, and underpowered? Or do they also leak? Or maybe they're only for short people? Is there a hi-fi equivalent to the RUB (Rich Urban Biker)? They must be the ones that pay $1000/ft. for speaker wire. Sorry, couldn't resist.

A; Yes to all 3.
B; Any with 25 yr old electrolytics will.
C; Not according to Randy Newman.
D; RUB = HiEnder. Often one-and-the-same.
E; And buy $10K enclosed trailers to haul their scooters to Sturgis in.

[Rolf]

Just one comment: It is 2007.

[BMWCCA]

And buy $10K enclosed trailers to haul their scooters to Sturgis in.

Whaaaat? They couldn't afford a nice one?