HT Pre opinions

[eyedoc]

Greetings
It is time to upgrade my HT preamp, and I would be interested in some opinions regarding my options. I currently have a Sherwood Newcastle AVP-9080R AV Tuner/PreAmp. The sound quality for the HT settings are great, but the 2 channel sound is fairly lame (actually, it sucks). I have the choice of running older Adcom or McIntosh amps (have both options). I am also looking into both Rotel and Parasound as other purchasable options. For speakers, I have L100t3's for the front, and L60t’s for center and rear.

I am looking at the following options: (all under $1000)
Parasound AVC 2500 (used)
Rotel RSP 1066 (used)
B&K Reference 30 (used)
Adcom 860 II (demo)
Outlaw 970 (new)

I am open to all opinions, esp from actual users of the above equipment.
Thank you in advance,
Kevin.

[Titanium Dome]

The used market is a treasure trove of great pre/pros, although you might miss the absolute latest development. (Who cares? I don't.)

I've heard all those, and without getting too long-winded, I'd list them thusly.

Rotel RSP 1066 (used)
Outlaw 970 (new)
Parasound AVC 2500 (used)
Adcom 860 II (demo)
B&K Reference 30 (used)

For me, the B&K unfortunately would be a nonstarter due to electronics problems experienced by both owners I know. B&K claims to have diagnosed and fixed the problem, but what if the one you get isn't fixed?

If you like the Outlaw, I'd say buy new just to have the security of a warranty. IMO the Rotel is more musical. The Parasound is good (but it looks ugly to me) and the Adcom is okay.

[Don C]

I have the exact same Sherwood AVP-9080 processor. Did you know that you can enable six channel direct mode for playing regular CDs? I just put CDs in the dvd player and they play in stereo. I'm happy with the two channel sound of my processor, I can't actually tell any difference between six channel direct with the DVD input and the regular stereo input for the CD player, but it's nice to have the bypass anyway.

[Mr. Widget]

The sound quality for the HT settings are great, but the 2 channel sound is fairly lame (actually, it sucks).

I haven't heard anything from Outlaw, and none of Rotel's HT offerings, but I have heard several examples from the other mentioned lines and found all of them pretty much useless for 2 channel. They all do a fine job in surround sound where having sounds coming at you from all directions masks any lack of detail and imaging... if you are after a really high quality 2 channel experience, I'd be surprised if the Outlaw and Rotel stack up against the better used 2-channel non DSP equipment that is readily available.

It is a hassle, but if high quality 2 channel reproduction is important to you, you can use a separate 2 channel preamp with your Sherwood. I do this with my B+K. I basically run the mains as a stand alone stereo system and feed one input on my stereo preamp from the B+K. When I listen to CDs or vinyl, I don't use the B+K or the other amps... this does add an additional line stage for the front Left and Right speakers during surround sound, but who cares... it gives me a very pure 2 channel system when I want to listen to music. Once you determine the proper gain structure to match your system, the only real hassle is turning on one additional piece of gear and remembering to reset the gain every time you switch back to surround mode.

If you go this route, you can pick up a fine 2 channel preamp for $500 or less and keep your Sherwood and the amps you already have.


Widget

[boputnam]

It is a hassle, but if high quality 2 channel reproduction is important to you, you can use a separate 2 channel preamp... Once you determine the proper gain structure to match your system, the only real hassle is turning on one additional piece of gear and remembering to reset the gain every time you switch back to surround mode.

I like this solution. It avoids all the processing of surround sound - none of which has ever satisfied / impressed me.

[Michael Smith]

Hey Eyedoc
Have you considered buying a HT Receiver, like a Denon AVR2307/2807 (these nos are Aussie/European) and using only the Pre/Pro section that would make life alittle easier.
Widgets' idea is a good one if you can be bothered with all the rooting around.At the end of the day your HT Receiver will be worth more than an out moded processor.Also the video section will be far superior and that is food for thought.
Have fun
Regards
Michael

[Guy in WNY]

Mr. Widgets method is what I will use when I do get a HT setup. I would not want to do it any other way. It's been my plan to build it out that way all along. I've been looking for a low-cost HT (rack mountable) that has L-R main outputs, but it's not a high priority at this time, and I've nowhere to look except big-box stores in WNY unless you want to spend mega-bucks from a "real" stereo store. TOO MUCH FOR MY BLOOD!

[Nightbrace]

I'd go with the outlaw, a lesser known company, but for the money, hard to beat.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Greetings
It is time to upgrade my HT preamp, and I would be interested in some opinions regarding my options. I currently have a Sherwood Newcastle AVP-9080R AV Tuner/PreAmp. The sound quality for the HT settings are great, but the 2 channel sound is fairly lame (actually, it sucks). I have the choice of running older Adcom or McIntosh amps (have both options). I am also looking into both Rotel and Parasound as other purchasable options. For speakers, I have L100t3's for the front, and L60t’s for center and rear.

I am looking at the following options: (all under $1000)
Parasound AVC 2500 (used)
Rotel RSP 1066 (used)
B&K Reference 30 (used)
Adcom 860 II (demo)
Outlaw 970 (new)

I am open to all opinions, esp from actual users of the above equipment.
Thank you in advance,
Kevin.

Kevin

What are you using for 2 channel source? Your dvd player or a dedicated cd player or phono? The issue may or may not be the tuner preamp. I assume you are using a seperate power amp.

At any rate you might look at the latest crop of Harman stuff. Also the Vincent audio range has some nice models. Both tend to offer the real deal where it counts. Have a look at the Acram and Cambridge audio stuff also.

The signal routing the others mention its logical but not always the most convenient and probably not justified unless you are planning a major make over.

Ironically, my situation is the other way around.

I have no particular expectations for HT but two channel is where the real business is.

[MJC]

I have the exact same Sherwood AVP-9080 processor. Did you know that you can enable six channel direct mode for playing regular CDs? I just put CDs in the dvd player and they play in stereo. I'm happy with the two channel sound of my processor, I can't actually tell any difference between six channel direct with the DVD input and the regular stereo input for the CD player, but it's nice to have the bypass anyway.

That is the easiest solution, using the bypass input sends the signal straight to the amp. No DSP processing at all. Just need a good DVD player for cds.
It certainly works for DVD-A/SACD, pure analog sent to the amp. Of coarse the cds will never sound as good as dvd-a or sacd.

I like listening to vinyl, I use a stereo receiver and old turntable in a different room, couldn't be bothered getting a phono preamp to connect to the H/K AVR.

[Shane Shuster]

I have a question about direct bypass modes, on most of the receivers and digital preamps I've seen the volume is controlled digitally, so how can it be a "direct" bypass mode if you are using a analog source? Aren't most of them just calling tone controls set to flat and no extra processing a bypass mode even though there is some processing?

For a true bypass wouldn't you need a totally separate preamp. I would think you would.

[Mr. Widget]

For a true bypass wouldn't you need a totally separate preamp. I would think you would.

That is essentially what the very best units do... and is part of the reason that they cost so much. Use my technique with a second dedicated pre-... it is far less costly and you can pick and choose the flavor of your pre.


Widget

[Shane Shuster]

That is essentially what the very best units do... and is part of the reason that they cost so much. Use my technique with a second dedicated pre-... it is far less costly and you can pick and choose the flavor of your pre.
Widget

I nearly bought a used Bryston HT preamp that was like that. I held off because I never have had any luck with a home theater processor/ preamp sounding better than a $1000-ish Onkyo or Denon (which are usually easier to use). Maybe because they use the same chip sets and go through standardized decoding/processing they sound roughly the same?

A Meridian with its customization or a Bryston with its separate analog section and no video section might make a difference but I've never owned them.

[MJC]

I never have had any luck with a home theater processor/ preamp sounding better than a $1000-ish Onkyo or Denon (which are usually easier to use). Maybe because they use the same chip sets and go through standardized decoding/processing they sound roughly the same?

I'm using an inexpensive Denon receiver for my turntable system. Lately I've been looking for a better intergrated amp or separates. The Denon PMA-2000 IVR @ $1200 seems like it might be a good choice. It has a phono equalizer that gets its own shielded, dedicated power supply.
I was thinking of B&K stereo separates, but the preamp needs an additional phono preamp, whereas their older preamps had phono inputs.

[Mr. Widget]

Lately I've been looking for a better intergrated amp or separates. The Denon PMA-2000 IVR @ $1200 seems like it might be a good choice....

If the Denon PMA... is a digital surround receiver or even a surround processor, I agree with Shane. The good ones and the moderately inexpensive units ~$1000 all sound about the same. Even if they offer a phono stage card as an option or it's included, these contemporary digital front ends are fine for movies, but they can't compete with even the fairly mediocre low end separates and mid-fi receivers of the past.

I really doubt your investment of $1200 would make much of a difference. It might have a lower noise floor and easier to use interface, but I would be shocked if it sounded any better than what you already have.


Widget