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Thread: new horn loaded system

  1. #1
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    new horn loaded system

    Merry xmas guys, here is a pic of my new horn loaded system. JBL and Altec components

    Drivers; Altec 288- g-16 x2
    JBL 2220 - H x 2
    JBL 2241- G x 2
    JBL E - 145- H x 4
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    Last edited by Mike C; 12-25-2003 at 12:21 AM.
    Thanks for your help
    Regards Mike...................

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    Thumbs up

    Wow ... Very impressive!

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    Hi Neriks, I'm pretty happy with the whole thing. It is butt ugly though the dynamics of this system need to be heard to appreciate. It has taken some tuning and still needs some, I'm going to buy some new amps in the newyear so I think that will tidy the whole thing up. The altec Mantarays blew me away, the projection and accuracy over all the other horns I,ve used is amazing. The system stands over 2mtrs high, and my 10 yo daughter can stand inside the sub horns ( they are huge ). I don't think the E- 145's are the best choice for the sub horns, but they are easy to change and I'm open for sugestions for suitable replacments. We put an spl meter on them the other day and at 6 mtrs we saw peaks of over 115 db. The total amplifer power for the system is 800 watts rms per channel.
    Mike......
    Thanks for your help
    Regards Mike...................

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    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
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    Wow, Mike!!

    That is monster! I don't think I' be allowed it in my family room...

    The E145 is better for a bass speaker, and in that was used in PA applications (high SPL), but I agree may not be the best for subs. I guess you want to stay with something 15-inch? I'm thinking 2234's or 2235's...
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  5. #5
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Hey, Mike C! Looks absolutely rebellious!

    What are the crossover points? I'm wondering if you really need a sub-bass. It would take a lot of 2235's and amps to power them to keep up with a pair of 2241's. I'm guessing your crossover to the 288's is about 500 Hz. What about eliminating the lowest crossover point and increasing the number of 2241's or adding a pair of 2242's in parallel with them?

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    Senior Member Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike!

    Thanks for posting this bro, my wife now appreciates the HR-1's a little more!

    Have a good Xmas

    Ken

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    Hi guys, the secret is no wife factor, I'm very lucky. I had the double fifteen folded horns as the LF, and the 2241's as the subs when we first hooked it all up. The fact is I cant change it back until I can get some more mates to come around and help me, the weight of these things is rediculous ( they all think I'm sick ).
    Ok this is how everything is hooked up,

    The 288 - G / Mantaray deal is passively crossed into the single 2220H loaded 15" folded horns, for this task I have two crossovers that I can swap between. Alec N-501-8a ( 500 hz ) or my favourite at the moment the JBL 3120a ( 1200 hz ). I like the 1200 hz crossover point when playing hard rock music as the mid bass slam is to die for...... trust me.

    The mid / top drivers are then crossed at 200 hz into the single 2241g's, this is done using a Behringer electronic crossover ( model CX - 2310 ) I use the sub ouput of the CX-2310 crossed at 80 hz to drive the two double 15" horns in the middle. Those horns loaded must weigh at least 150 kg each, they are built like tanks!!.

    I must say when I first hooked up this "Titan" system it sounded awful, the crossover points and phasing not to mension been careful with the impedence of all the drivers ( my amps are wimps )and I was short on leads to use my RTA ( Santa has now fixed that ) but it has been worth the whole effort.

    As you all can see its all very ugly, so over the break I'm going to start refinishing the whole system and make grills for all the bins. Some of the bins have a bit of history as well, the single 15 and 18 horns came out of a very famous venue in these parts called the Bombay Rock as part of the house system. I'm told many of Australias hottest bands have played using these bins through the 70's and up until the closure of the venue in the late eighties. Well I guess I have some playing to do over the break, and tommorow I'm off to look at some amps a local sound guy has for sale. The amps he has are all Perreaux and he has offered to lend me what ever I need to get the power I need to drive this system to its potential, in doing so I can then get the amps I need knowing they all work. The guy is up grading to lighter amps as the Perreaux units as some of you would know are very heavy, I'm not sure I would like to lug some of them around to different gigs.
    Anyway thanks for your interest in my system guys and I would love any advice to help me get the most out of this beast.
    Have a safe break and I wish you all and your families a great xmas and a well earned rest.
    Mike.......
    Thanks for your help
    Regards Mike...................

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    Glad I could help Ken!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Mike.
    Thanks for your help
    Regards Mike...................

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    Junior Member Ski's Avatar
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    Wow, that looks great to me.
    Make it Funky!

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    Senior Moment Member Oldmics's Avatar
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    Hi Mike,I want to comment on the choice of drivers (2241)that you are using in those folded horn cabinets as subs.Being an old pro sound guy ,I know those cabinets well.
    Those cabinets were originally designed to utilise a K141 speaker.I have the plans next to me and they are listed as "W" Horn for K151 18" Driver.The K151 speaker is a short XMAX driver.The 2241 speakers that you are using are longer XMAX drivers.What this means is that there is a potental to slam the cone into the baffle board that the speaker mounts to.This could cause total destruction of the cone assembly.
    This would happen when the speaker is really cranked up.The trick is to get enough clearence to get the cone away from the baffle board when the cone is at full XMAX.Sometimes a gasket between the speaker and the baffle board will do the trick.It is a thin,air tight fit gasket that would have to be fabricated .This is a tough chore due to the thin mounting frame on the 2241 and trying to keep the moving surround away from the fabricated spacer assembly.You might want to take a look see at the drivers and see if the surrounds are chaffed where it has impacted the baffle board.
    I just do not want to see any damange to anybodys sound system.
    Hope this info helps,Best regards,Oldmics

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    Hi oldmics, you are dead right. I had that problem with the 2241's when I first purchased those bins, we cut out some 3 ply birch rings to put between the drivers and the mounting baffle. I did the same to the single 15" horns as when I got them they had e-140's in them with the same problem. Both work well now and no audible thuds. Thanks.
    Mike.....
    Last edited by Mike C; 12-26-2003 at 02:39 PM.
    Thanks for your help
    Regards Mike...................

  12. #12
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mike C
    they all think I'm sick
    Well, Mike, we all get a little of that. It's just a question of whether there is some socially redeeming value in our particular form of it. You are an educator. Most people have never heard good sound reproduction.

    I still have some questions about your setup. How different are the respective cutoff frequencies of the W bins and those double scoop bins?

    Thanks,

    David

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    Hi Dave, the "W" bins as they are connected now - LF I am led to believe go down to 40 hz and fall quite quickly beyond that. The Behringer crossover has a 25 hz high pass button which I have switched in, so I'm guessing they very quickly fall at around 30 hz. The double folded horns ( the subs ) I'm gussing would be flat to around 35 hz I don't have any info on them either. I don't have any high pass devices on the subs, that is unless they are affected by the high pass switching on the Behringer crossover . I'm going to look at some amps today and at the same time I'll see if the guy has a three way crossover which will give me some more control over the bins.
    I was thinking getting a crossover that has varible 180 degree phasing control too as I'm sure there are issuses there as well.
    This morning I'm going to hook up my RTA and just see where its all at . Sorry I probably haven't answered your questions very well, but these are the areas I need to learn more about and play with. One thing is forsure, the bottom end needs to be tightened up a whole heap and I'm guessing its because my wimpy amps don't have enough control over the large drivers.
    Mike.........
    Thanks for your help
    Regards Mike...................

  14. #14
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Hi Mike,

    That's a swell system and you sound very happy with it.

    I'll bet the dynamic are something else!!

    Regards your amps, what are you using at the moment?

    I see you refer to the legacy of the Bins, well I have a Phase Linear 700 Series 2 that kicked arse for the likes of LRB from Jands that would be the Bees Knee's for you.

    I've previously seen the 700 drive the 2226 to the limits of linearity without damage, but you sure would need those ply rings for serious levels.

    Ian

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    Hi Ian I did miss out on a rack full of those 700-b's a while back, I didn't get to look at the Perreaux's today ( xmas spirit got to me ) how ever this morning I added a pair of 2404's to the system. What a difference, the highs are fantastic. I crossed them using a filter out of a pair of cabarets i had kicking around. Heres a pic with my ugly mug in it. (guess what Santa got me )
    Mike.
    P.S I rotated the mid bass horns for wider dispersion, made a big deferance. The sound seems to fill the room more.
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    Last edited by Mike C; 12-27-2003 at 02:22 AM.
    Thanks for your help
    Regards Mike...................

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