4343 crossover modifications

[B&KMan]

BTW:

I wait with by interest the threat of 4343 to 4344 upgrade and in this time I try to run test and expose at you great members the distortion create by vibration in caps.

next soon...

[B&KMan]

Yes Jean ,

- You should start a new thread about this topic of "micro-vibrations" within capacitors ( or inductors ) . It certainly warrants a lot of scruntiny. You should then see if you can enlist the efforts of a moderator to remove all the posts located in this thread that pertain to this unique topic . You'll need to do the homework and identify the posts that warrant removing and those that may need a duplicate left in place. Once armed with this blueprint you should then pass it on to the moderator. Then maybe, just maybe, this thread could get back on track.

My gripe :

- By consistently locating your micro-vibration" observations in this thread , you're making it almost impossible for others to participate in the original topic ( that of reworking the network for better performance ).

- This thread has now become like "Moses wandering the Sinai desert" / and you should know, that he never did make it into the promised land .

Thank you still for this Earl follow-up,

You are right well on practically all the table...

In fact my problem is:
how to install problems considered to be by manys like ridiculous
seeing ésotéric in this forum??

and of makes since the question of the vibration was elements major in
the heart of this too long thread, I have lengthily to hesitate to build a new thread simply to expose this 1 post bracket.

It is certain that this thread if it were cleaned of these slags would
be certainements more attractive and easy.

I believe that Mr. Mackensie had clearly to express the idea that is to
condense that and of another prospect in a project and not in a forum.

alas, I made my first weapons with this thread and I practically learned my
English at the same time (sic)

other share, when I look at several thread complex like that of zilch "quick and
dirty..."one also falls into a disproportion.

In fact all the forum is a maze with only those which make go the
search engines finds the information which wishes.

I have personally to pass the hours and the hours to be sought and
liras of the infos which without preliminary research would be like a
sand grain in the world of the fabric of the www.

I your frustration includes/understands, that I also divide...

but which is best the step?? to produce full with small threads and to synthesize them in a final project???


this experience vibration is exposed just the fact why sand or other inertia material is a real benefit on condensers on passive network... in regards of my entire project network.


finally, I more produced the electric proof which missed with my vibratory
approach that one read in this thread...


hummmm manys of deep questions which resound here...

thanks again for cue and I open my pm for any sugestion.



Jean.

[BooBoo Magoo]

My gripe :

- By consistently locating your "micro-vibration" observations in this thread , you're making it almost impossible for others to participate in the original topic ( that of reworking the network for better performance ).

- This thread has now become like "Moses wandering the Sinai desert" / and you should know, that he never did make it into the promised land .

Yeah, I read this thread and ended up parting out my 4343's.

[B&KMan]

- Yes, I feel that topics like "phasing/polarities" , "capacitor types", "inductor types", "wiring type", "crossover isolation ( from vibrations )" are all separate topics and need to be treated as such in separate / smaller threads .

For Example : - Remember when IanMac started a thread on how to align a 4343 with a simple Radio Shack SLM ? Well , you didn't agree with his method and you guys debated back & forth in a separate thread. The value to that is that the rest of us can either read it or not. If we are interested in that one single aspect of getting better performance out of a 4 way we can follow along and try out the ideas presented. That thread in its' own way contributes something useful to those with 4343/4 systems. Thankfully , the two viewpoints are confined to a separate thread.




- Well, I happen find the topic very fascinating and deserving of separate scruntiny within an identifiable thread. The topic may seem esoteric or ridiculas to some, but that's their problem. A new thread with its own name will allow others in the future to access this information and learn from it. Right now with that information scattered throughout this thread , no one will ever find it, even using the search engine .

Well your right again...

but the mess is done, what correctif your sugest ??

restarts a few news threads for recapitulating each thematic ??

[Zilch]

Other share, when I look at several thread complex like that of zilch "quick and dirty..."one also falls into a disproportion.

I think of it as "comprehensive."

I'm nearly done, and putting together a summary/index of it. The key to finding stuff there is to use the search engine within the thread, if that works for you. If "Search" leads me to a large thread, I'm not typically reading the entire thing to find the desired info, nope....

In fact all the forum is a maze with only those which make go the search engines finds the information which wishes.

That's the dilemma, of course. There's so much information here you can spend the rest of your life tracking it down. That's the advantage of the extended threads. If someone's interested in Sub1500, 95% of the info is in the one thread.

Ian's approach is a good one, but it should be implemented in a project forum, with subthreads on each topic. It takes extreme discipline to make even that work, though; previous attempts have been only marginally successful at it.

As Jean points out, it's difficult if not impossible to organize a project "in progress." It goes where it goes, and there is value in the exposition of the process and issues that arise, and advice from others along the way is especially important.

That said, I agree with Earl that a separate synthesis of the crossover vibration issue would be helpful. Link to posts in the existing thread(s) to illustrate the points, as required.

[B&KMan]

BTW:

I wait with by interest the threat of 4343 to 4344 upgrade and in this time I try to run test and expose at you great members the distortion create by vibration in caps.

next soon...

well after discution of organisation I put the result on new thread http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?p=69183

[B&KMan]

As Jean points out, it's difficult if not impossible to organize a project "in progress." It goes where it goes, and there is value in the exposition of the process and issues that arise, and advice from others along the way is especially important.

Ok I start a new thread :
:http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?p=69183


key add a liric opignions and other way perspective plus joke converstion and the thread is explode really fast but in definitive this is the nature of forum.

[B&KMan]

As Jean points out, it's difficult if not impossible to organize a project "in progress." It goes where it goes, and there is value in the exposition of the process and issues that arise, and advice from others along the way is especially important.

yes my dear, your right too

but my intention is not build and lead a project (same as master guys) but just try to upgrade my network.

[CraigStrat]

Hi,

I am 22, an avid listener/guitar player. My tastes center mostly around 70's progressive rock. Gentle Giant, ELP, Zappa, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, etc. My 4343's have provided me with countless hours of enjoyment. I love to listen at high levels (110db +). My L-Pads are shot, and I started thinking (my mistake), what else can I do to improve my crossovers?

I am bi-amping, using 2 Phase Linear 700's.
700 Series Two - LF
700B - MF/HF/UHF

My 4343's have:
2231A's reconed with 2235H kits
2121's are stock.
2420's are stock.
2405's are stock.

I would like to build a charge coupled network using Solens, unless anybody strongly advises otherwise. I'm also going to bypass the selector switch, hard-wired permanently to external bi-amp mode.

I am fairly new at this, though my father is an electronic engineer and he will be helping me with this project. However, his expertise is more in the field of amplification and active signal processing design.

I know the first choice would be to upgrade to 4344 components. But, using the components that I already have (list above), does anyone have a schematic or any other info that would I apply to my situation?

Any help at all would be eternally appreciated.

Thank You.
/Craig

[Pierre-Marie]

Hi

I see that you use many French capacity of the mark SCR, we had here many of probleme because their value changes a lot in time.
We use now many of polycarbonate of the mark monacor with a good resultats checks

Regards

Pierrot

[Zilch]

I know the first choice would be to upgrade to 4344 components. But, using the components that I already have (list above), does anyone have a schematic or any other info that would I apply to my situation?

Presumably, you understand the concept from reading elsewhere here. Do one section at a time, starting with UHF and working down. Replace the L-Pads first throughout so you can hear what's happening....

[Tom Loizeaux]

When I re-habed my 4343s, I wanted to keep them stock. I did replace some capacitors and I added bypass caps. I also always run mine in the bi-amp mode and have been very pleased.
I have aquired new 2421 diaphragms, but haven't installed them yet. When I open the 4343s up again, I'll install these new diaphragms, add jumpers to bypass the rotary switch, leaving them in the bi-amp mode, and I may exchange a few caps with some "high end" caps I've aquired.
I don't think I'll do much more. These sound soo nice that I'm afraid to tinker with them too much.
Since I have a Sub1500, I might add this sub, just to see if 28Hz really helps, but actually I'm very pleased with these 4343s as is!

I suspect that if you upgraded your power amps, you'd hear an overall improvement.

Keep us posted.

Tom

[Rolf]

I am bi-amping, using 2 Phase Linear 700's.

I agree with Tom. You will get a lot more with other amps.

Rolf

[Earl K]

they still grow on me...so much so I had to publish this project.

- I think there's little contention that you pretty well own the 4344/5 portfolio ( along with everthing class A ) - but this is one thread on the subject not actually initiated by you

- Whatever happened to Jeph anyways ( probably sold the damn things ! )

[CraigStrat]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm actually quite satisfied with my amps. The 700 Series 2 is the later version with full-comp outputs. The 700B has been modified, using the outputs for the Crown VZ-5000. The power supply on the 700B is so beefy, it loves it. My father is an authorized Crown service center, and was able to acquire these for me.

Eventually (far off in the future), maybe I'll upgrade to Crown Macro Reference amps. These amps have a damping factor of 20,000 and provide EXTREMELY tight low end response. A friend of mine has a pair of 4350's powered by 3 Macro References. 1 Channel for each LF, and the third amp powers MF, HF, UHF. They sound incredible!


To Tom,
I have a parametric EQ. I find boosting 2 or 3db @ 30hz, 1 1/2 octaves wide helps quite a bit.

/Craig