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Thread: 4343 crossover modifications

  1. #481
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    Well Dr Watson, or should I say Zilchmeister you have solved another case.

    Well done!

    Ps. The 2121 must be reconed to a 2122 c/- Giskard.

    Ian

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Well Dr Watson, or should I say Zilchmeister you have solved another case.
    Jeez, I HOPE so! I'd like to get outta these hip waders....

  3. #483
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    Earl's post 308 erroneously inverts the LF driver connection, putting it in phase with the other drivers (only MF is shown), and that is likely the source of the difference in driver motion between your factory 3143 and "Bignet" crossovers, assuming your drivers are connected per Earl's drawing in post 308.
    Oh oh ! I felt my ears burning

    - Sorry for the mess-up guys !
    - Look at all these extra postings I've caused / shameful !
    - & I promise that in the future I'll excuse myself from polarity discussions.

  4. #484
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K
    - & I promise that in the future I'll excuse myself from polarity discussions.
    Earl, you should leave that topic to Phase Man... aka Bo.


    Widget

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    Earl, you should leave that topic to Phase Man... aka Bo. Widget
    Yep ! ,,,


  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    Earl, you should leave that topic to Phase Man... aka Bo.


    Widget
    OL Tin Ear has been rather quiet lately.....I do miss the noise I must say.

    Ian

  7. #487
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    So what is happening here NOT.

    Jean,

    Send me a PM, I have a surprise for you.

    Ian

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    So what is happening here ,,,,,
    ,,,,,
    Hi Ian,

    - Because of what Jean has stated within Post 432 / I think he's offline for a while , enjoying a holiday .

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K
    Hi Ian,

    - Because of what Jean has stated within Post 432 / I think he's offline for a while , enjoying a holiday .

    Hey hey ,

    Your right Earl !!!

    but the vacancy is finish

    and what is a mess posts here...
    ( yuk yuk yuk )


    -------------------------------------
    well seriously,

    I analyse, compute, and keep litterature on my vacancy of this funky phase connection question...

    1--- JBL expose clearly what is (+) and ( - ) in the schematic but never expose what side connection of driver.

    2--- if I suppose inverted polarity convention is applied the black (neg electric network wire is never connected in black post LF 15" because the neg post is (+) post of driver !!!!

    many thread expose the convention color of JBL and many time I read
    all the time black cable with black post of LF driver ...



    WOW WOW WOW




    I read the 4343 connection polarity and manys other old speakers vintage and

    I just not understand

    (maybe Earl is same of me )

    but the original 3143 schema, the schema do not expose the connection with drivers color terminal post

    => just color code of wire with out polarity

    ok ok ok .

    I'm back in 3145. polarity is exposed on original schema

    LF = signal + => + (post driver supposed ) ( + = black post in this case )
    mF = signal + => - (post driver supposed ) ( - = red post in this case )
    hF = signal + => - (post driver supposed ) ( - = red post in this case )
    uhF = signal + => - (post driver supposed ) ( - = red post in this case )

    =======================

    the black code wire is by convention for the black post LF and LF go inward.

    but the positif wire is clearly indicate for positif post not color a specific color post terminal driver (black)

    =======================

    the interpretation of Zilch of the driver polarity is inverted value is delicate because, at the time of the schema is produced, all driver of JBL is negative convention so.................


    now with my poor english I feel really ShakespeareMan...


    positif is positif or it is not positif


    THIS IS A QUESTION !!



    where is my philosophy study


    1---- the invertion phase in schema 3145 is clear : Lf is inverted of the rest of the drivers. or it is inverse ???

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


    the question is LF is move inward or outward.


    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


    JBL ressource guys please go in yours email phone and kidnapp the guy who have a information....



    2------ the invertion is according of 1 degree of butterworth filter but keep in this mind normally the phase shift is due to "slowly " phase shift....

    so the question is slow the Lf or Slow the mid.... :dont-know

    my litterature expose the LF is all the time in phase (outward motion and the rest is adapted to filter selection..




    Jean.

  10. #490
    Senior Member B&KMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    In both of these JBL published cases, the black (-) network INPUT terminal connects to the black (-) terminal of the LF driver but to the RED (+) terminals of the other three drivers, as I described above. The wire and driver terminal colors are not shown on the pdf 3145 schematic, but, per JBL convention, (-) output designation goes to black driver terminal.


    Her ZilchMeister,

    where you read this " published cases" ???

    I finded in JBL site and audio Heritage and I'm not found " published cases " who JBL explain this convention...

    the negative polarity convention explain the black is in reality the ( + ) post !!
    (normally it is red = + post)

    thanks to put links in my " blind eyes "


    Jean.

  11. #491
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    "These published cases" refers to the 3143 and 3145 schematics linked directly above there....

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    "These published cases" refers to the 3143 and 3145 schematics linked directly above there....
    well it too osbcur for me...


    I call JBL Pro !!!!



    ok dokay this is the final answer of The tech support of JBL pro California.

    The vintage driver is wounded inverse motion so if you put ( + ) signal into a ( red ) post the system is inward motion.

    all in there have this information... but the red is the (+) post of the driver !!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    the schematic convention is the (+) post is RED!!!!!!!


    so if you back on schematic it is easy to understant the LF CONNECTION:

    + signal to (+) => RED post !!!

    final result of 3145

    -----------------------------------------------------

    LF IS INWARD MOTION
    MF, HF & UHF IS OUTWARD MOTION.....

    -----------------------------------------------------



    thanks for all


    jean.

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    The wire and driver terminal colors are not shown on the pdf 3145 schematic, but, per JBL convention, (-) output designation goes to black driver terminal.

    In ALL cases, wired per JBL or per Giskard specification, the LF moves IN when (+) voltage is applied to the network input terminal....

  14. #494
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    Apparently .

    Just remember what we said about the crossover values being only applicable for specific driver upgrades .

  15. #495
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    Caps ! caps ! when you keep my mind...

    Hi again...

    after 2 smalls weeks for stabilise my speaker with final good phase connection, I perform mesure and fine tune...


    no surprise the response is not really change than last posted here...

    so I decided to wait build of my second network and stock little money for

    probably refresh my 2420 original diaphrams for more recent diaphrams.

    I know it is exist a controverse in alu VS titane and so any person have perform upgrade or chance to compare is welcome to post your experience.




    Jean.

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