4343 crossover modifications

[B&KMan]

------Hi Guys, Nice links/concepts.

-----A 2mm thick piece of pure Silver with drilled holes to suit your mounting post/number of wires should work.

-----Hey hey !!! Is Bruel & kjaer design of amplifier for shaker 20dB gain but 30AMPS power... (so each part Is over over box no cheap solution in this way...)


----- Where to find a pure silver plate ???

Maybe try to buy start connector with wire... hour hour party Time....


But thanks for cue...


Jean

[rek50]

Pure silver can be found at a jewelry supply or precious (Gold/Silver) dealer. My plumbing analogy was in reference to the similarity in professional lay-outs of pipe or conductors. I don't see sharp bends in either. The path of least resistance is the rule. Round/Open Air Coils or Square/open air coils? Torridial Transformers or Square Transformers. Round caps/Oval caps. There are shapes to suit everyone...

[B&KMan]

The path of least resistance is the rule.

Round/Open Air Coils or Square/open air coils? Torridial Transformers or Square Transformers. Round caps/Oval caps. There are shapes to suit everyone...

Hi everybody...
Just 2 minutes for send a physical set-up of big fat crazy DC Network. Each rock plate is 12" X 12 " (Left to right) one plate contains HF & UHF section, next is mid and finaly low section...

I try to limited the number of soldering and build a start path as possible...
Nothing is perfect...

For solder: 80W big iron and 2 crocodiles clip at each lead is work perfectly...

All parts is glued in epoxy ....

: cheers :

Jean.

[Earl K]

Hi Jean

Nice Effort !

Each rock plate is 12" X 12 " (Left to right) one plate contains HF & UHF section, next is mid and finaly low section...

- Those "rock-plates" look like marble tiling stones ( maybe from Rona / Home Depot ) . Is that what they are ?
- I assume that you are going all out to reduce & minimize induced "microphonics" or "micro-???" as you call them ( I guess I need a review of all the terms in your vernacular ).
- I think each plate will need rubber "snubbers" to "float" on top off, / to stop ( damp ) all microphonics. Any ideas of what you'll use ?

- As an aside, one of my favourite surplus caps in this house ( apt.) , is a cap that has the metallized rolled core encased in epoxy (this epoxy is poured into the plastic outer shell ). This cap is very, very "quiet" / which seemingly contributes to a deeper soundstage.

[Robh3606]

What size wattage are those potentiometers?? They look a bit small. You may want to beef the midrange pot up a bit.

Rob

[B&KMan]

- Those "rock-plates" look like marble tiling stones ( maybe from Rona / Home Depot ) . Is that what they are ?

Yes but is important to choose granite not marble because marble is more soft less weight and many micro-broken and is instable. and is sound Hi-pitch...

- I assume that you are going all out to reduce & minimize induced "microphonics" or "micro-???" as you call them ( I guess I need a review of all the terms in your vernacular ).
- I think each plate will need rubber "snubbers" to "float" on top off, / to stop ( damp ) all microphonics. Any ideas of what you'll use ?

Thanks for support...


I run with analyse with modal set-up for found:
--- point wave
---frecquency sensitivity.
--- Amplitude excitation.
(see my pict)
I hesitate to give a great secrets control vibration because is it very dispendious information...

Well, This forum is generous and in final issue It is impossible to tune with-out modal analyser...
(see my pict)

1--- mass inertia garantee : the vibration energy on caps is dissipate; the sensitivity of vibration energy is less. The criterion is do you feel to dissipation is fast or slow that is damping factor... This aspect is conditining the type of dissipation and create a signature in same power and value then if the caps is floating in the air. So if you put caps of rubber , you damped very high amplitude but your keep prisonner the enegie and time dissipation is long... SO what the ?&?*&? . Well imagine you have a pianist to play one note is come very tigh to another, if you put rubber you bloom amplitude vobration but this emergie is extend in time and blur the next note, and again, and again, so you saturate the rubber of the energy and is loose dissipation energy capibility... So the rule is harder than possible to create a fast medium mass transfert for clean fast as possible the energy prisonner in caps... That is the reason is you put caps on epoxy (great hardener) you caps is more fast and more silent= so better deep and gorgous...

For my part, I put a 1 inch mdf board glue on epoxy botton of my rock: in this the 2 natures of material is mutual cancel the peak amplitute of natural frecquency material and is create a high mass and fast transfert energy. This plate is fixed on back of my speaker for renforcement and create other component on this sandwitch for more cancelled energy.


Finnaly I study actually the possibility to create small box and fill to sand.

CRAZY ???




Jean.

[B&KMan]

What size wattage are those potentiometers?? They look a bit small. You may want to beef the midrange pot up a bit.

Rob

euhhhhhhhh...

I dont know why I'm feeling the pot is 10W So I buy a 10 watts pot....

But I look schematic, of Giskar and not spec on this !!!


I know original pot is bigger !!!! shit!! another ride ....


Thanks for good asking !!

[rek50]

Jean, Those "Rock Plates" are interesting. Your vibration ideas are interesting as well. They make most sense for external (Not inside cabinet) networks. My talk of "rubber mount (Silicone)" comes from observing the Silicone mounting of caps used in a pair of McIntosh SL-4 speakers that I have, as well as reading the designer/engineer (Roger Russel) thoughts on the process.( The SL-4 networks are inside the cabinets.) I would have never imagined that the vibration of electron flow, per event, would carry over to affect the next event, if it were not disapated to the extent that the cap was at full rest, while being exposed to what seems a greater source of vibration, Sound. It makes me wonder HOW the electronics aboard a rocket, Blasting away on take-off, can function at all considering the HUGE vibration environment. Keep up the good work.

[B&KMan]

I would have never imagined that the vibration of electron flow, per event, would carry over to affect the next event, if it were not disapated to the extent that the cap was at full rest, while being exposed to what seems a greater source of vibration, Sound. It makes me wonder HOW the electronics aboard a rocket, Blasting away on take-off, can function at all considering the HUGE vibration environment.

thanks for encouragments...


well in bad situation you have better approach is tuned sound vibration for keep sound good. If you put rubber, silicon or high damping for disconnect the caps on the inside wall cabinet you drop just little peak amplitude but bloom sound...

The JBL metal box with glue on all big part is really better approach than masonite... the effective mass and dissipation energy is better and before of all: the damping factor is good and natural frequency is balanced by multi layout materials...

ex:the masonite natural frecquency is in general 3 big modal frecquency...
at this frequency is amplifying the vibration and creatte a big differencial vibration with other part of frecquency... this effect vreate a tribo-electric effect and microsonic effect at this frecquence... and your sound capture this effect and go output with signature... so your sound is sound " masonite"
the engeneer jobs is creat compound light as possible in regards of this criterion:
---less signature possible
---with low damping (for this application)
---low amplitute reactive vibraton on all spectrum.
---commercial price and production restriction.

On the rocket , all part in consider, number back-up, and more more more... But it is not a 2$ solution !!!

1 satelitte is generally cost couple hundred millions...

My network is evalutaion final at 1500$ each !! (without handcraft fees)
So imagine the retail price for this...)
IT IS A REALY DYE project... yuk yuk yuk...

[Zilch]

And the batteries are where?

Note: 9V lithium battery is available, "Ultralife" at Radio Shack, Parts Express (#140-205, $8.00).

Will last 10 years, maybe. Put installation date on it.

Maybe solder the connections to the battery terminals carefully, or figure a way to seal the clip without contaminating it.

We're talkin' cotton-candy currents here; any oxidation over time will kill the bias voltage.

[Less than potato, even.... ]

[B&KMan]

---And the batteries are where?

---Maybe solder the connection carefully, or figure a way to seal the clip without contaminating it.

[Less than potato, even.... ]

Thanks for falcon eyes

-----the dc cables and bat is not actually there... I just omit to buy a resistor 2. or 3.3 mOhms
Actually I just submit my layout to expert eyes for detect problem before final soldering... and maybe I not all soldering now because I try to test circuit before at low power and analyser....

it is a real hobby !!! It eat all my time...

--- for the clip : is appear in pict because this is step roug set-up...
it is not step when i solder...

see flower clip for time soldering
(sorry for pict)

[4313B]

Solen explain for fast caps, the Dc charge is affecte the response but in worse side... the dc charge on film and foil is downgrade in regards standart circuit... TITAN shock because Giskar is expose a point of view of G.Timber where is consider the best is DC charge in Film and foil....




The best is build 2 versions but the price for extreme version is just over thousand...

so, I hope Giskar the great and Mr JBL ingeneer is wind this TITAN shock...

I'm not quite sure how to take this so I'm not going to respond directly.

I skimmed over this thread again briefly and noticed reference to G.T. and the statement that biased film & foil would be best. Please forward me to the original statement so I can review it.

[B&KMan]

I skimmed over this thread again briefly and noticed reference to G.T. and the statement that biased film & foil would be best. Please forward me to the original statement so I can review it.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...0&postcount=13

I hope Is not again mis-interpretation of language fence...


Jean

[4313B]

mis-interpretation of language fence

Ah! Nope, makes sense now. This comes back to the point I made about various capacitors with the same published dielectric being "different". Your Solen guy may very well be right that biasing his Solen poly and foil may be detrimental. Unfortunately it is up to you personally to make that call after listening tests. I've had several long conversations with guys who live and breath caps and they have mentioned that once you get to a certain level things become merely different as opposed to "better" or "worse", if that makes sense. It would also appear that there are fewer capacitor manufacturers than there are branded capacitors. Dayton is allegedly Bennic for instance.

I did bypass the Dayton MPP with Dayton PP&F and the result wasn't very nice. I replaced the Dayton PP&F with the AudioCap PP&F and the difference was astounding.

Same published dielectrics with different sonic signatures. One sounded great to me, the other sounded not so great to me. Someone else might think the Dayton PP&F sound perfectly fine. That's primarily why I've bowed out of recommending any specific combinations. I have no idea what capacitor combinations work best with which transducers and which power amplifiers. I am thoroughly confident no one else does either. The combinations are staggering to contemplate. Hopefully you will stumble across a combination that works great for you. I'm personally perfectly satisfied with

biased Solen MPP
or
straight SoniCaps
or
biased Dayton MPS bypassed with AudioCap PP&F

H/K back end. JBL direct radiator transducers. I have yet to try the RelCaps straight for JBL compression drivers and that project is months away.

[4313B]

I'm personally perfectly satisfied with

For now that is.