Jean,
Your points seen valid but have you thought about trying to make your own capacitors?
Not joking. If size and space limitations are not an issue it could be done.
On another point have you experiemented to determine effects of capacitor self inductance. (Parrelleling capacitors should reduce inductance).
Also, I have a measurement design somewhere for esr, DA and other key capacitors parameters. If you like I could send to you.
Ian
Why not biamp them???
Rob
I have to ask the same question!Originally Posted by Robh3606
Why not biamp them???
Rob
Though I did add bypass caps to the big caps in my 4343s, I only really care about the caps in circuit when I use these in the bi-amp mode. (Why listen to these great speakers in full passive mode?) I want to get the best sounding result by putting my efforts (and money) in to the ideal caps on the 2121s, 2420s, and 2405s. This is why I'm waiting to hear Ian's conclusions on the Auricaps, etc.!
Tom
The space s no problem I buid the network outside of speaker and I have a size of the back panel speaker for limitation space
--------- :shock: ------------
WELL, that is the point whre my theory and experience is smach the wall...
I appreciate very strongly to give measurement design somewhere for esr, DA and other key capacitors parameters.
Thanks IAN.
Jean.
I'm understand your point of view and I recognize the superiority of the bi-amp but in according of info of JBL pro site in this question... No ideal world...
For my part it not realizable actually to add amp and some level quality of electronics... And if I go in the futur in active amp, be shure I cancelled totally the network... to very high level digital crossover to control all aspect in time and fequency domain with out phase shift or time delay integration...
So, actually I prefer to go in this passive way and my effort is go in this way...
So thanks for verifying my way and any point of view in this way is welcome...
: cheers :
Jean.
Change the 2x 7.5 ohm 10 W to 2x MO1000J15R 15 ohm 10 W. Everything else looks good. The ultra-low DCR of your main coil should be good for ~ 1 dB increased output from the 2235H/2245H. I see you've also spec'd the Solen film & foils as bypass caps. Should be interesting.
Thanks for feedback Giskard,
--- WOW more 1 db ...
---2 resistance in parralle is drop value by factor of 2 ???
(hey I'm realy dummy in electronics)
---For the film and foil Solen: My actual little modification of 3143 (pics sended in this thread) is the film and foil Solen... all the way
sm100 = 1uF
se150 = 1,5uF
se200 (2x) =4uF
This little modification of change caps of hf and uhf is cost close $ 200 (tax and solder)
My last (Shakespeare) hesitation for this circuit : do i have to add the zobel circuit for stabilizing impedence or not ????
The original zobel specs a 7.5 ohm value. If you are going to double up for power handling purposes use paralleled 15 ohm resistors. (R1^-1 + R2^-1)^-1
"do i have to add the zobel circuit for stabilizing impedence or not ????"
I'd stick to the schematic.
"This little modification of change caps of hf and uhf is cost close $ 200 (tax and solder)"
I don't know if it's worth the hassle. I'd just build basic biased filters without bypass caps and listen to that first. Adding bypass caps is cake if you decide to do it later.
Again you proof your are a Master...
Well, I'm not shure to interpretation... the zobel circuit integrate in LF is for control the peak impedance or for stabilizing the circuit after peak or driver...
I suspect it is for peak impedance driver because the driver is cut frequency soon and probably not disturb the impedance ...
So the zobel localisation is the 20 uF caps in serial with the resistor
I have a good comprehension of the circuit ??
Jean.
OK DOKAY,
another white night to work hard of build a improvement and comprehension of circuit..
Another time I found a 2 stupids neophyt questions
In Hf circuit is double value caps of 9.1and 15 uF but what is original value of 3145. (this information is relevant because I build a multivalue and In this, I shure to build more close original value.)
-----
In the UHF the same problem appear the value of caps look too big :
maybe is result of the choke ???
-----
I have read 1.5 uF in 3145 and you run more higher value than 3.0 uF ???
-----
If anybody have again correction or comment is welcome...
Hi again folks group....
For the guy is not too tired of the $$%#?&*&(&%$?$?%$? question caps and modification and DC biais, I have pass today , 3 hours in master Mr Solen (Denis ) in person and I have a high level grade discussion with my DC biais , cascade caps, type of caps, etc. in regards of any argumentations points keeped in this great forum...
The point relevant of this strong discussion is:
1--- The nature of caps is determine the nature of problem....
the electrolytic cap have a rise time more than 3 v / second !!!
for comparison; the polyster is 1 v/s the polypropylene metal is 100 faster .01/s
and film and foil is 10 more faster: ,0001 /s.
No surprise the dc charge is preload the electrolytic caps and minimise the memory of caps!!! It is asolutely non accurate nature of this type of caps who create obligation to build new design (dc biais) for update element... But the dielectric value is not changed and the quality of caps is not equal to better "fast caps"...
-------------
2--- the DC charge biais is appeat is non complete cncept because for the ideal situation , normally your charge DC positif a one pair of caps and you put a other pair of caps in parrallele with negative Dc charge. In this, the AC power is start at 0... But it is relatively absurd to apply this circuit with good fast caps because non signfiant improvement appear...
The reason of this circuit is introduce is according directly by the fact of the cheap caps in DC charge is less cost of the high level caps... (Solen point of view).
3--- For the question of the multibrin in caps lead...Solen is produce this type of caps but cut the production rrapidly because the first problem of this type of lead is infiltration of air inside of caps.... So in 2 years the caps loose by corrotion a big part of accuracy....
4----
each soldering is consider with a problem... so put 3 caps in same point contact in parralelle is realy better than 3 independant soldering in parrallele.... the soldering cancel the interest of finest caps cascade...
5----
For cascade question, the bypass is work in very high level frequency resonnance and not really important in regard of nature of caps...
for exemple 3 types caps and 3 types values insert in circuit 6 types of resonnance and reactance... yes! you hide a signature but you hide signal too !!!..
but f you put low value film and foil , your time frequency in regards in time domain is appear probably better because you insert the highest caps reactance available...
ex: in high section is better to put 4 value film and foil in this regard than dc charge with biais and bypass...
I'M COMPLETEY DESTROYED !!!!
one side great feeback in go in a specific way...
Other side one specilist who provide 2000 OIM where prestigious Avalon, krell, totem, Wilson, etc, etc, etc,
final touch !!! Solen recognize any insert parts is altering circuit but it is not shure in the good way !!!....
$%$&?%&&*? of course i very happy of my solutionbecause ton of caps in there... 600$ for each speaker...
More ???
The distance where you soldering lead caps altering the value and the master problem of crossover, is first the cable !!!
(if you consider you runed with good solen caps.)
SHIT!!! I have feeling is flashback in apocalypse now film...
I hope you appreciate this interview report...
if anybody have other documented point of view, I'm shure the forum member and me is strongly appreciated...
Hi again folks group....
For the guy is not too tired of the $$%#?&*&(&%$?$?%$? question caps and modification and DC biais, I have pass today , 3 hours in master Mr Solen (Denis ) in person and I have a high level grade discussion with my DC biais , cascade caps, type of caps, etc. in regards of any argumentations points keeped in this great forum...
The point relevant of this strong discussion is:
1--- The nature of caps is determine the nature of problem....
the electrolytic cap have a rise time more than 3 v / second !!!
for comparison; the polyster is 1 v/s the polypropylene metal is 100 faster .01/s
and film and foil is 10 more faster: ,0001 /s.
No surprise the dc charge is preload the electrolytic caps and minimise the memory of caps!!! It is asolutely non accurate nature of this type of caps who create obligation to build new design (dc biais) for update element... But the dielectric value is not changed and the quality of caps is not equal to better "fast caps"...
-------------
2--- the DC charge biais is appeat is non complete cncept because for the ideal situation , normally your charge DC positif a one pair of caps and you put a other pair of caps in parrallele with negative Dc charge. In this, the AC power is start at 0... But it is relatively absurd to apply this circuit with good fast caps because non signfiant improvement appear...
The reason of this circuit is introduce is according directly by the fact of the cheap caps in DC charge is less cost of the high level caps... (Solen point of view).
3--- For the question of the multibrin in caps lead...Solen is produce this type of caps but cut the production rrapidly because the first problem of this type of lead is infiltration of air inside of caps.... So in 2 years the caps loose big part of accuracy by corrotion....
4----
each soldering is consider with a problem... so put 3 caps in same point contact in parralelle is realy better than 3 independant soldering in parrallele.... the soldering cancel the interest of finest caps cascade...
5----
For cascade question, the bypass is work in very high level frequency resonnance and not really important in regard of nature of caps...
for exemple 3 types caps and 3 types values insert in circuit 6 types of resonnance and reactance... yes! you hide a signature but you hide signal too !!!..
but f you put low value film and foil , your time frequency in regards in time domain is appear probably better because you insert the highest caps reactance available...
ex: in high section is better to put 4 value film and foil in this regard than dc charge with biais and bypass...
one side great feeback in go in a specific way...
Other side one specilist who provide 2000 OIM where prestigious Avalon, krell, totem, Wilson, etc, etc, etc,
final touch !!! Solen recognize any insert parts is altering circuit but it is not shure in the good way !!!....
$%$&?%&&*? of course i very happy of my solutionbecause ton of caps in there... 600$ for each speaker...
More ???
---- The distance where you soldering lead caps altering the value
---- the master problem of crossover, (if you consider you runed with good solen caps.) is the cable link!!!
SHIT!!! I have feeling is flashback in apocalypse now film...
I hope you appreciate this interview report...
if anybody have other documented point of view, I'm shure the forum member and me is strongly appreciated...
B&KMan..thanks for publishing your investigations..perhaps this will lead to less skeptics and snake oil discussions in the future on capacitors.
Scientific investigations lead to fact not fiction.
Hi again folks group....
For the guy is not too tired of the $$%#?&*&(&%$?$?%$? question caps and modification and DC biais, I have pass today , 3 hours in master Mr Solen (Denis ) in person and I have a high level grade discussion with my DC biais , cascade caps, type of caps, etc. in regards of any argumentations points keeped in this great forum...
The point relevant of this strong discussion is:
1--- The nature of caps is determine the nature of problem....
>>>>I have always thought that might be the case based on testing and empirical investigations, ie green caps (electrolytic versus mylar/polyester versus polyrpopolyene)
the electrolytic cap have a rise time more than 3 v / second !!!
for comparison; the polyster is 1 v/s the polypropylene metal is 100 faster .01/s
and film and foil is 10 more faster: ,0001 /s.
No surprise the dc charge is preload the electrolytic caps and minimise the memory of caps!!! It is asolutely non accurate nature of this type of caps who create obligation to build new design (dc biais) for update element... But the dielectric value is not changed and the quality of caps is not equal to better "fast caps"...
In a paper by Marsh there is a description of biasing of caps in cvarious locations of a typical amplifier and the tweeks that are applicable, electro reverse polarity with bias voltage, bypass with film etc. Typically biasing yields the most improvement with poorer dielectric
-------------
2--- the DC charge biais is appeat is non complete cncept because for the ideal situation , normally your charge DC positif a one pair of caps and you put a other pair of caps in parrallele with negative Dc charge. In this, the AC power is start at 0... But it is relatively absurd to apply this circuit with good fast caps because non signfiant improvement appear...
Perhaps you can conduct and experiment on the above.
The reason of this circuit is introduce is according directly by the fact of the cheap caps in DC charge is less cost of the high level caps... (Solen point of view).
That would appear to be a good economic outcome.
3--- For the question of the multibrin in caps lead...Solen is produce this type of caps but cut the production rrapidly because the first problem of this type of lead is infiltration of air inside of caps.... So in 2 years the caps loose big part of accuracy by corrotion....
4----
each soldering is consider with a problem... so put 3 caps in same point contact in parralelle is realy better than 3 independant soldering in parrallele.... the soldering cancel the interest of finest caps cascade...
5----
For cascade question, the bypass is work in very high level frequency resonnance and not really important in regard of nature of caps...
for exemple 3 types caps and 3 types values insert in circuit 6 types of resonnance and reactance... yes! you hide a signature but you hide signal too !!!..
A solution of economic rationalism and diy morphs but not the best hifi solution.
but f you put low value film and foil , your time frequency in regards in time domain is appear probably better because you insert the highest caps reactance available...
Yes, with an obvious example...typically a large time constant like 220uf and 10k will have a reactance at a very low frequency..the key then is to bypass with a low value film capactor (0.047 or less) to counteract the performance that trails at higher frequenencies.
ex: in high section is better to put 4 value film and foil in this regard than dc charge with biais and bypass...
one side great feeback in go in a specific way...
Other side one specilist who provide 2000 OIM where prestigious Avalon, krell, totem, Wilson, etc, etc, etc,
final touch !!! Solen recognize any insert parts is altering circuit but it is not shure in the good way !!!....
Most capacitor companies claim to be OEM to major speaker companies.
$%$&?%&&*? of course i very happy of my solutionbecause ton of caps in there... 600$ for each speaker...
More ???
---- The distance where you soldering lead caps altering the value
---- the master problem of crossover, (if you consider you runed with good solen caps.) is the cable link!!!
SHIT!!! I have feeling is flashback in apocalypse now film...
I hope you appreciate this interview report...
if anybody have other documented point of view, I'm shure the forum member and me is strongly appreciated...
Yeah maybe but for most with what and why do it with drivers 20 years out of date?Sounds to me like you need to forget about all this crap and go active.
Ian
HEY HEY HEY Giskard...Sounds to me like you need to forget about all this crap and go active.
I work hard actually to create a big hole on my gardin and put all my system!!!!
I work to try to perform a great job improvement and I put a question in basement of certains principes... So I have feeling it is realy interesting for communauty... Maybe you are tired of my poor english or circle question but my way is upgrade max quality crossver as possible...
I'M surprising the question of double dc charge pos and neg is not intrigue your mind ?? or you have already response...
You are the king of modification design and you have not point of view of this???
put down other way and just consider the theoric question...
(After, each decide if is the way is satisfy)...
do you have perform test where new passive crossover build with and with out DC charge. ??? The improvement it is signifiant ???
Jean.
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