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Thread: 4343 crossover modifications

  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Giskard,

    I am incline to think Jean has a wiring or parts error looking at his analyser read out.
    Easy to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    But the 5.6 uf capacitor in (A) appears large relative to the original eqivalent schematic and stock design.(3uf)
    It's fine for certain loads as shown by the voltage drives. Anyone can change the values as required/desired to get the performance they desire.

  2. #377
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    To assist with some clarity here I will arrange the new equivalent schematic and run some voltage drive tests using the std JBL test jig over the next day or so.

    Those curves from GT's file look almost identical to the readings on Db scale of my analogue meter...by the way.

  3. #378
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    Good.

    I must have done something right then.

    Thanks.

  4. #379
    Senior Member B&KMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    If I remember correctly the LE85/2420/2421 was considered a "12 ohm" device and the 077/2405 was considered a "10 ohm" device so 16 ohms should be too radical. I think Mr. Widget recently measured a bunch of the ring radiators but I don't recall seeing any impedance curves. Someone should measure their LE85/2420/2421's and post those impedance curves too.

    First thanks very lot Giskard for this precious information and I'm feeling you put a finger touch on good aspect...

    I talk with my brother and the 2405 is originally 12 ohms impedance and substitution by final 16 ohms... is look same story for the original 2420...

    actually I have changed recently the 2405 for new original 16 ohms

    and the sceal of 2420 is not here. so maybe ???


    ----------
    I keep a moment for understand this excellent flood information...
    But I feeling, in regards on your information, the best it is mesure the real impedance of each driver...



    Thanks again...


    ===================

    Ian,

    first thanks for reply,


    You trouble my head

    maybe my slab rock is contains a iron and create a induction !!! I no idea what test good for verified this aspect... do you IDEA ???
    (of course the simple probe tester in ohms is create 0 value....)

    I have a slab and inductor of second network not mounted so maybe it is possible to perform test but I dont know the protocol....


    Jean.

  5. #380
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as a 16 ohm 2405!!!! How many times.....? Here are the impedance plots again.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...4&postcount=10

    For the record, the red plot which has the lowest impedance was an original 2405 with 16 ohms proudly printed on it's undisturbed foilcal.

    Widget

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&KMan
    But I feeling, in regards on your information, the best it is mesure the real impedance of each driver...
    SOP if one is as serious as you appear to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    There is no such thing as a 16 ohm 2405!!!!
    No there isn't! Not even close!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    For your purposes I'd go under the assumption that they are 10 ohms.
    That would appear to be SOP.



    Anyway, it had to happen sooner or later.
    Someone was bound to start testing a bunch of these legacy drivers and discover the truth.
    At least now you all know why some folks hand pick their components and carefully match them. Westlake comes to mind...
    I wonder if this will start a flood of forumites getting all their drivers measured.

    Quote Originally Posted by B&KMan
    thanks very lot Giskard for this precious information and I'm feeling you put a finger touch on good aspect...
    You're welcome. I'm outta here. I hope these posts were of help.

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  7. #382
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&KMan

    Ian,

    first thanks for reply,


    You trouble my head

    maybe my slab rock is contains a iron and create a induction !!! I no idea what test good for verified this aspect... do you IDEA ???
    (of course the simple probe tester in ohms is create 0 value....)

    I have a slab and inductor of second network not mounted so maybe it is possible to perform test but I dont know the protocol....


    Jean.
    Reposition the inductors at least three inches and measure gain.

    Jean,

    Have you verified with a meter (with a db voltage scale) with the filters connected on the 8 ohm load resisters the attentuation as per JBL spec sheets on the 3145 crossover?

    This will help you determine where the fault is.

  8. #383
    Senior Member B&KMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    There is no such thing as a 16 ohm 2405!!!! How many times.....? Here are the impedance plots again.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...4&postcount=10

    For the record, the red plot which has the lowest impedance was an original 2405 with 16 ohms proudly printed on it's undisturbed foilcal.

    Widget

    Thanks Mr Widget,

    Do you have perform correlation into impedance curve and spl ???

    According in basic principe the 8 ohms is play (in theory) 2 more loud than 16 ohms... Right ?? so the 16 to 10 ohms is contain potentially big difference ouput power... right ???

    Jean.

  9. #384
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    Lightbulb 1 step rodage after 12 days

    Hi everybody,

    I keep just 2 minutes in rush time for give a late news...

    actually audio system is open 24H of the 24H, left speakers or old network and right is new Network...

    After 1 week, the sound is change... yesterday surprise the speaker right is rebird with phenix...

    Yesterday the bignet is pass the first step rodage... the sound is less squeese sound, more deep and wide...

    I no time now but I very curious to check mesure again...

    I'll be back !!!


  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&KMan
    According in basic principe the 8 ohms is play (in theory) 2 more loud than 16 ohms... Right ?? so the 16 to 10 ohms is contain potentially big difference ouput power... right ???
    Yes, if such actual impedances existed in 2405's, which they don't, no matter what it says on the foilcal label, which is the point here....

  11. #386
    Senior Member B&KMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&KMan
    Hi everybody,

    I keep just 2 minutes in rush time for give a late news...

    actually audio system is open 24H of the 24H, left speakers or old network and right is new Network...

    After 1 week, the sound is change... yesterday surprise the speaker right is rebird with phenix...

    Yesterday the bignet is pass the first step burning... the sound is less squeese sound, more deep and wide...

    I no time now but I very curious to check mesure again...

    I'll be back !!!


    Another 2 minutes for expose sound effect result in ....step 2..

    Now the right speaker with bigNet is play clearly higher than old network on left speaker.... little more wide and fast but (here is come baby) the sound is metal harsch... because I'm not familiar with the russian mountain burning in this set-up but, I'm refer to burning of modification on 2143 in first post in this thread:
    The metal harsch is long phase before final great opening sound and down signature...

    actually I listenning more 50% details before modifications....

    actually the sound is look same as first modification with film and foil Solen really improvement but a touch of metal on all aspect... this effect is completly dissapear after 5-6 week with system on 24H/24H...

    I have no idea if the Dc charge is slow or not the time burning...


    So the triller continue...



    (p.s. I try to mesure entire speaker this week-end ( big time consuming))

    Jean.

  12. #387
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    In all of this, I have not yet figured out what "rodage" or "cie" mean.

    Anybody have a clue?

  13. #388
    Senior Member B&KMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    In all of this, I have not yet figured out what "rodage" or "cie" mean.

    Anybody have a clue?

    sorry poor english => rodage = burning

    => cie = company





    Jean

  14. #389
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    I have a long weekend so I should be able to key the system into absolute focus with the Hi end external crossover and Hi end active crossover.

    Pictures to follow.

    Here is the IN/OUT department.

    The Cardas Bindings posts provide input from the large Spades. One Binding Post pair provides termination of the bass bi amped signal which is routed directly to the Output via the Heavy duty 8 Pole Speakon. The other Binding post pair handles the Mid/High biamped signal which is routed via the 3 passive crossover filters. The Speakon connector provide a convenient and effective means of routing 4 conductor pairs directly to the drivers while maintaining fail safe phasing of the discrete signals.

    Earlier in the week I burnt my fingers solding the Cardas binding posts, they are an excellent conductor of heat!

    The Doctor
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  15. #390
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    WOW.

    Okay,

    Sometimes there are no words to describe what you hear, this is one of those moments.

    What I can say is there appears to be a certain order about what is heard.

    There is also the most believable life like expanse of sound such that you are projected to the venue of the recording.
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