Warped Spider

[gyusher]

Help. . .I just sold a pair of MINT L-112s that worked perfect. . .Now the new owner says one woofer wont work at all, a broken crossover. . .Says the spiders are severly warped and he has to have both woofers reconed. . . . I knew nothing of this, I played those speakers every day all day right up to the day I put them in their boxes and shipped them to him. . .The guy seems honest and sincere. . .Someone tell me about "Warped Spiders" please . . . .I am going to have both reconed at considerable expense. . .Shouldnt I have been able to hear such a gross problem????

[gyusher]

I just had the woofers refoamed by a JBL service center and I asked then about the condition of the woofers and to fix any potential problems. . .He said they were fine. Now three months later and the buyer lives 500 miles away I am at his mercy. The buyer took the woofers to a JBL center and was advised to recone both. . .Had I known I would not have sold them without at least mentioning it in the description or fixing them first.
The thing that jacks me is that they worked so well and sounded so good to now all of a sudden be junk. . . .

[4313B]

Have an Authorized JBL Service Center look at them and determine the condition of the spiders. I would think you would be able to hear severely warped spiders.

I would be suspicious of a broken crossover. The L96 and L112 used a very sturdy crossover network with well mounted components that would be quite tough to damage during shipping. Perhaps one of the wires is loose.

[gyusher]

Im understand the crossover problem. . .The "Choke" for lack of a better word was broke loose from the board and was hanging down. . .I think that speaker was dropped. . .I have another pair of crossovers that I sent the buyer. . . .

[4313B]

Must have been a very early L112 because the inductors were all bolted down in the later versions. Earlier versions were held down with a metal strap. The earliest versions must have simply been held down with hot melt glue. They used two different inductors, the earliest used a tiny iron core and the final versions used the large air core. Anyway, it sounds like you took care of it.

[Robh3606]

What is a warped spider?? How do they get warped?? I have seen them sag with cone if the drivers are not turned periodically when stored face up or down.

Rob

[4313B]

Maybe the guy thinks the ridges in the spiders are warps...

[4313B]

Originally posted by Robh3606
What is a warped spider?? How do they get warped??

Dunno, I've never seen a severely warped spider and I've seen a few that were seriously water damaged.

[gyusher]

"What is a warped spider" That is the question. . . .The buyer left both woofers at a music shop in Chicago where he lives. . .The repairman told him that the spider was warped.. . . . The first complaint was that one woofer didnt work. . .My first thought was a wire was loose as the tweeter and midrange were working fine. I told the buyer to lay the speaker on its back and pull the woofer. . .Check for a loose wire at the woofer and the crossover. . .We did this during a phone conversation, during his inspection he mentioned the coil or choke hanging down looked broken. . .I could hear the woofer scratchiness over the phone as he pushed the cone in and out. . .My first thought was that he had tried to play it too loud while it was still cold from its journey but the broken crossover told me that it must have been dropped.
Having no experience with the UPS insurance and not wanting to get them involved I told him to take it to a JBL service center and get an estimate on fixing it and I would pay the charges. Not knowing the recone job was 194.00. . .Now wanting to get insurance to cover the damage suddenly its a warped spider that wouldnt be covered by insurance.
Anyway I told him to get them both repaired using JBL parts at a JBL service center, I sent him 2 crossovers that must be later versions as it has a bolt through that choke or coil.
Live and learn. . .Next time its a call to UPS imediatly and they can pick them up and determine what the problem is. Frustrating because they worked flawlessly for a long, long time untill now and all of a sudden they are junk. . .
I had never heard of a warped spider that would all of a sudden stop it dead in its tracks. . .,Oh Well. . . .I dont know what more I can do. . .

[boputnam]

Originally posted by gyusher
I dont know what more I can do. . .

Hey, Guy...
I'm lost in the verbosity as to what has already been done, but if you've not done anything, I would demand they be returned to you, refund the buyer his cost and shipping, and be done with it. Get 'em home, where they belong. This whole thing sounds like

[gyusher]

After the buyer took the woofers to the service center for repair I told him they were his now and he had better be happy with his decision to get them reconed. I gave him crossovers and I intend to give him 100 bucks towards the repair. . .If thats not enough then home they come.
I want to do the right thing but after all these are 25 year old speakers that worked right. They were not new and if he wants new its going to have to be with his nickel not mine.
I asked him to get a estimate only and he made the decision to leave them to be repaired. I will help to the extent thats fair but thats it.

[4313B]

Originally posted by gyusher
I could hear the woofer scratchiness over the phone as he pushed the cone in and out. . .

The recone center should be able to determine if the drivers suffered electrical or mechanical damage. Back in the day when JBL drivers had extremely small gaps it was considered barbaric to attempt to manipulate the moving assembly with something as crude as the human hand.
I guess it's ok to paw a 128H though

[gyusher]

The service guy said the damage was not electricle but was caused from a "Warped Spider". . . .Thats why I am crazy now. . .They worked and sounded perfect 1 day earlier at my house as they have sounded every day I owned them. . . .That was my question Why all of a sudden did it quit? The buyer calls me on the phone sqweaks the woofer at me and says "shit" give me money. . . .Basicly. . . .
BTW I agree that drivers are to be heard by electricity not by hand. I was taught that you dont touch the drivers period.

[lpd]

Not to be unreasonable, but I would request a picture of the damaged driver, and also the number of the repair shop to speak directly to the repair person. I have had a few people in my years of selling vintage gear attempt to claim damaged goods, looking for a rebate/refund ect. only to never return a complaint when asked for pictures of the damage. I fully refund damaged goods, but not ones I can't see. You could have also offered to have him send the damaged driver to you to inspect and have repaired. Just my 1/2 cents worth.

[Oldmics]

I have seen a fair amount of warped spiders.More so in E.V. products than in JBL.These range from mild to severe.I have a coupla theorys about this.I believe that to get the desired tension on the spider or perhaps for flame retardent reasons spiders are sprayed with some sort of chemical.As this sprayed on material drys out over a period of many years,it drys in an uneven fashion creating the warpage.The other observation that I have made is where there is an uneven spread or a blob of adhesive at the coil/cone/spider joint,this will create a tension due to the extra mass and spiders start to ripple from this location also.Many of these severy warped spiders play just fine.I do however recommend reconing when a spider has collapsed and has no tension left.Oldmics