D130

[Thom]

Does anybody believe a D130 belongs in a living room. If so what frequencies would you limit it to? Would you roll off the signal on the bottom or just let that happen. It's not a necessity. I've probably got plenty of drivers and if I'm missing something it isn't something the D130 can replace. I used to be in love with them, haven't heard them in years and I'm wondering if they scream their name to loud or if I'd still really love them. I'm thinking that if I put them over LE15 A's and H's I wouldn't have to give them much room. I was thinking of stuffing their box real good and not really closing the back, the frequencies where cancellation is a worry will belong to someone else, and they should be able to carry up to where 2435's are happy but the fact that nobody uses them hasn't totally escaped me. Just looking for a viewpoint. "You're crazy" isn't helpful unless you follow through with the rest of it. Half a lifetime ago I spent countless hours listening to an S8R system against a D130 175DLH and 075 in a C34 and the S8r went lower, there is no doubt. but above that the C34's seamed alive. So I'm thinking if you added a bottom end who knows? but that was a long time ago, and thats why I'm asking. There is no room for two C55's and a 61 inch TV. Thank you.

[Zilch]

D130 wants 4.6 cuft tuned to 44 Hz for "Extended Bass" alignment. F3 is 92 Hz. Power handling is poor; you're out of cone excursion at 10 W.

For "High Fidelity" alignment, it's 2.3 cuft @ 57 Hz for an 89.5 Hz F3. That's good for more like 20 W.

Closed box, 2 cuft, the F3 is 135 Hz, 10 W max.

BB6P is using 0.762 mm as Xmax. I've questioned that before (E130 is 2.54 mm,) but if it's correct, use the HF alignment, roll it off below 90 Hz, and add a sub....

[Thom]

It seams to me that I've heard you say (read) that it was rolling off by 150. I often read posts by people who claim it as their favorite speaker and that's my memory but memory is a funny thing. My carpentry skills suck I'm much more at ease with meter, wrench, soldering iron etc. so I'm questioning. Is a D130 accurate within a certain range or is it great on an electric guitar because it puts the instrument in the room. I'm aware that it likes a big box ,but if every thing below say 200 Hz goes somewhere else, then does it still need the big box? Or could you even run it open baffle if your not giving it the notes that would normally give you cancellation problems. I probably know just enough to not have a good excuse to get into the trouble that I probably will. Oh, this is the one I'll get excommunicated for, if you put a 2245 surround on a 2240 and don't play it hard enough that having a 3/4 inch coil instead of a 1 inch coil causes a problem should it behave somewhat like a 2245?

I'm afraid I don't know what BB6P is but it makes sense that a D130 would have much less x max as it is a "HiFi" speaker and an E130 is an electric guitar speaker. Unfortunately I don't have a D130 that I bought new so it's not possible to know what I have for sure. How much like a D130 does a K145 sound (in the range where they both can play) are they tight and light like a D130 or by making it a base speaker did they loose that? Where do they start to roll off. I had a base player tell me that unless he really hit it hard he liked the 140 much better ( for playing bass ) he said he had to really get on it for the 145 to come alive. I notice that the cone is very light and the suspension seams tight. You can't really get this from a book. Someone has to have heard them. I have one brand new K145 so I guess if I went for the D130 I could always try it in there. Whatever help is deeply appreciated.

[Zilch]

My carpentry skills suck I'm much more at ease with meter, wrench, soldering iron etc. so I'm questioning.

Ultimately, you're gonna have to confront that and DO something, Thom. The lumber yard will cut the panels for you.

Build the "High Fidelity" box above; who gives a crap what it looks like for now? See what it sounds like. Roll it off at 250 Hz, 100 Hz, 80 Hz, whatever....

[boputnam]

...if you put a 2245 surround on a 2240 and don't play it hard enough that having a 3/4 inch coil instead of a 1 inch coil causes a problem should it behave somewhat like a 2245?

You are all over the map, pard'...

What is it you are trying to do? Maybe list the drivers you wish to use, get this moved to DIY and there get help in your project.

Why do you want a 2240 to "behave like" a 2245? The 2240 has a pleated surround; the 2245 has a foam surround - they are very different. Is this some sort of quiz...?

[Zilch]

It seams to me that I've heard you say (read) that it was rolling off by 150.

It depends upon the alignment, of course. I've provided you with F3 for each of those above.

I'm afraid I don't know what BB6P is but it makes sense that a D130 would have much less x max as it is a "HiFi" speaker and an E130 is an electric guitar speaker.

BB6P is Bass Box 6 Pro, a box design program which has T/S parameters in its database.

The extended range D130 ultimately became the flagship guitar driver in the "D" series musical instrument line. Once high-power solid state amps came out, we got all stupid and blew them up routinely:

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/d130.htm

[Thom]

Where I started was feasibility /desirability of using D130 for upper bass/ lower mid. Considering using it from about 200 to wherever the 2435 does the job better. Also wondering if it could be used open baffle as long as it's being cut off that high. The other stuff can be looked at later. I've got a couple LE15A and a couple LE15H and some 18inch. don't need to get into what to do with them, just don't need to take the D130 where it never really wanted to go anyway, also don't want to take up more room with it than I need to. Wanted feedback on it sonically from people familiar with it. Trying to decide whether it plays the music or announces itself. It's been a long time since I kicked back and listened to one. I'd be disappointed if when I was through and put tunes on the reaction was "listen to that D130" as opposed to whatever was playing.

The carpentry thing was just that making boxes isn't second nature to me so I'd like not to make too many that I don't use.

[speakerdave]

Where I started was feasibility /desirability of using D130 for upper bass/ lower mid. Considering using it from about 200 to wherever the 2435 does the job better. Also wondering if it could be used open baffle as long as it's being cut off that high. The other stuff can be looked at later. I've got a couple LE15A and a couple LE15H and some 18inch. don't need to get into what to do with them, just don't need to take the D130 where it never really wanted to go anyway, also don't want to take up more room with it than I need to. Wanted feedback on it sonically from people familiar with it. Trying to decide whether it plays the music or announces itself. It's been a long time since I kicked back and listened to one. I'd be disappointed if when I was through and put tunes on the reaction was "listen to that D130" as opposed to whatever was playing.

The carpentry thing was just that making boxes isn't second nature to me so I'd like not to make too many that I don't use.

Standard operating procedure is to begin with test bed boxes, which can be crude but should be substantial, to answer just such questions, which no one else can really answer for you.

That having been said, the D130 was my introduction to JBL sound. I forgave it its shortcomings for the sake of its good qualities, both of which were immediately apparent. Even then, however, it was obvious it was not a long-term solution for hi fi.

There seems to be an assumption in your posts here that you are limited to using drivers you have on hand. If that is a correct reading, I would like to suggest that you could probably buy a pair of 2202H for the price you could get for the D130's, if factory kits were used for the recones.

JBL never used the D130 as an upper bass driver in a 3- or 4-way system, and they expended expensive engineering talent to develop the drivers they did use. To go against that thinking to use a driver because you have it on hand is probably a losing proposition.

JBL did use the D130's little brother, the 12" D131, in the "Texas bookshelf" prototype (with a pair of LE15A's on each side) for the 4350. But they went on to develop the 2202 on the same frame, as well as a 15" that was more effective in the low bass than is the LE15A.

Also, Drew Daniels used a version of the 130A from 80 to 300 Hz in his 5-way system. From that you can see that even over that narrow band he sought flatter response than the D130 will give you.

If I were after quick and punchy mid-upper bass I would follow either of those examples.

Finally, to go up to a frequency where the 2435 will be effective, a 12" or 10" driver would be better.

David

[spkrman57]

I had E-140's reconed to E-130's with paper dust cap.

The enclosures I'm using are 2.5 cu ft tuned to 60hz.

They start around 120hz and response to 3.6khz, although not sure how much of that upper response is beaming though!

FYI: port is round 4" hole in back of cabinet same thickness as the .75" cabinet board.

I use a 18" sub up to approx 120hz for smooth integration.

Hope this helps!

Ron

[Thom]

Thank you, that's why I asked. Most of my experience with JBL until the last few years was D130 but mostly folded horn and I'm not that ambitious. Never really understood the reason for the 131, seems to need as much box as the 130. I'm not stuck with using what I have on hand, lord knows I've bought enough drivers that I will never use and probably never sell just had to have. I'm just familiar with the D130 and not with much else. Always thought it brought out detail, at least the thin paper narrow gap ones. Following posts here sort of lead me away from that, but now and then there is a post that reminds me of how I remember it, but I also remember that in a C37 the bottom was mushy and in anything smaller it was constrained. Couldn't remember if it was accurate or impressive in its primary range. And I'm aware that in my experience no one has used it like I'm considering. I remember LE15 being hard to match horns to o(yes I'm aware of all the systems that do it, sort of) because they are so much more dynamic than it is and thought this might be a way to do it. What woofers are you talking about? I have 135A and LE14 but neither will play seriously loud. I'm fascinated by the K/E 145 I have a K and frames for two E's but I'm under the impression that without a horn you cant get real low with it. As well as the 2435's that I don't have horns for yet I've got 800 and 500 altecs and a pair of large EV horns and drivers. Obviously one would never use all that I'm just saying I don't have to get to 1K or so with a cone I just thought a cone might do it better. You should see me shop for a bicycle or a car.

E130 is probably much like a D130F only a little more forward because of the stronger magnet. You should be able to hear a difference in detail and such, the D130 being the winner but I'm not sure if I'd be able to tell them apart or not.

[speakerdave]

Never really understood the reason for the 131, seems to need as much box as the 130.

It's just cosmically lively.

What woofers are you talking about? I have 135A . . . .

Yes, the 135 and 136, 2230 and 2231, and later the 2235. Right, they give up about 5-6 dB to the D130.

I'm fascinated by the K/E 145 I have a K and frames for two E's but I'm under the impression that without a horn you cant get real low with it.

That's right, but it is unique in JBL's proline in having an underhung voice coil and is said to be very good. Rob uses e145's as bass drivers above the LE14 for subwoofer. He biamps, so the efficiency imbalance is not an issue at moderate home levels.

David

[Thom]

Has anybody out there had a D130, preferably not in musical instrument use and had it re-coned with an E kit. It should be audibly different. Is it?
Also there are so many aftermarket D130 kits out there and the factory only has E kits (correct me if I'm wrong) are there any aftermarket kits that are closer to the original than the E is?

[Baron030]

Hi Thom
This last spring I had Orange County Speakers do a complete overhaul of my old D-130s.
I had them recharge the alnico magnets, and re-cone the baskets with JBL E130 factory kits.
After installing the overhauled D/E-130s back into my old DIY enclosures, I noticed that the bass roll off to be a lot greater then with the original D-130 cones.
My enclosures were built in 1973 and have a net internal volume of 4.3cuft, a single 5" x 7" port, with a port duct length of 4.25". And surprisingly, this combination comes in fairly close to an "Extended Bass" alignment. This explains way I found this 030 system a complete joy to lesson to the last 30+ years. (See my advar for a picture.)
But, with the E-130 re-cones, I found this near "Extended Bass" alignment to be totally unacceptable. It's just way too weak in the bass department.
As an experiment to correct this problem, I removed the port ducts. This changed the port duct length to ¾", and it raised the enclosure tuning to about 62 Hz. With the higher port tuning, I noticed that the bass sounded a lot better. A lot less mid-bass roll off and a punchier bass sound overall. While, the bass is not as good as the original D-130 cones, the D/E-130s are still very pleasant!
If you are going to try using some E130s, then I would recommend going with the slightly higher "High Fidelity" alignment instead of "Extended Bass" alignment. It should give you a better overall sound.
Oh, I and really do believe that D130s belong in a living room.
Baron030

[Thom]

Is this the only difference you noticed? The clarity and detail are still as good as original?

[spkrman57]

My 2.5 cu ft cab tuned to 60 hz was arrived at after conferring with a knowledgeable forum member here.

I informed him I wanted the flattest response, and LF response was not critical as I had the 2242 subs to fill in the bottom.

What Baron030 says is true, there is not much response below 120hz with E130(paper dustcap). What does sound great is the upper midbass and midrange.

It is the most dynamic driver I 've heard without being horn-loaded!

It works for me, YMMV!

Regards, Ron