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Thread: Aftermarket Replacement Diaphragms

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary L View Post
    The point still remains, Are you upgrading your "Machine" or slapping a band-aid into it.
    The purists among us, me being one of them, will always fall on the side of keeping things real and stock.
    Someone above mentioned the fact that these are infact yours and you can do what ever you like with them. I have some of my own opinions there but they will remain in the dark for the purpose of this discussion.

    I don't own a piece of JBL equipment but plenty of Altec. I have a couple of Radian diaphragms that came in drivers from ebay. If I ever have an altec one burn out I would use these to hold me over until GPA gets a new one at twice the price to me. Remember too that with altec drivers the switch is simple and no brain surgery or allignments are necessary.

    I guess the real question is two fold. Why bother buying, keeping or accepting JBL gear if you have no intention of maintaining it with correct parts. Secondly, why bother comming to the Lansing Heritage site where the entire purpose is in maintaining the sonic purity and history of JBL and Lansing products and posting about some aftermarket less expensive and unproven part.

    No one said you can't but more then a few think it is pretty foolish! YMMV

    Gary
    Look I'm not hawking any aftermarket parts but I question that this is actualy true. I also question that in at least some cases it must be theoreticlly possible for another company to make a part that would make a JBL driver better. I am not aware of any but that is beside the point. If we all think lock step with JBL why are we working mostly on devices that they have all but abandoned? I don't want quoted saying any other diaphragm is as good as JBL. I've made no such statement. I also have not said that that no one else does as I don't know but this isn't religeon. Except for a very few among us JBL doesn't know us or care a lot one way or the other about us. It wouldn't hurt for those very few to introduce themselfs but perhaps they have their reasons not to. I don,t understand this getting so overheated. You would think someone had badmouthed your football team or for some insulted your god. I don't get it. Ian, I thought your football was the same as ours you just don't understand the rules.

  2. #32
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thom View Post
    If we all think lock step with JBL why are we working mostly on devices that they have all but abandoned? .
    Thom....that is where you are mistaken.

    JBL hasn't abandoned them. They still make parts for drivers that are over 50 years old.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  3. #33
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    I've always been puzzled by aftermarket diaphragms. My picture of them is that they are needed by bands who use Behinger electronics, and such, and throw microphones. For high fidelity where a new diaphragm may be needed every 15 or twenty years the idea is ridiculous.

    If someone is looking to cheap into compression drivers and horns, look for Emilar drivers which were designed, I have read, by Jonas Renkus, engineer emeritus of Altec. They were made in 1" and 2" versions and Alnico and ferrite and sell for dirt. They can be fitted to either Altec or JBL horns, or, naturally, Emilar. Best of all, though the company Emilar is dead and Plus One Engineering which apparently once intended to continue producing the horns has been sidetracked into making sirens, the diaphragm technology has been inherited by Radian, which I believe is a serious company, so the diaphragms for Emilar which you buy from them will be like original equipment.

    Somehow the human element is overlooked. Giskard makes the effort to close the cost gap between the JBL diaphragms and the others, which for good reason he eschews, and discussion about their viability is bound to grate.

    David

  4. #34
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    http://www.radianaudio.com/products/...ewT=diaphragms

    Radian's approach to the engineering of the JBL original is different and no doubt the result is different and this maybe critical in certain applications and not in others.

  5. #35
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    Presuming that no after market device can compare, would not the adult response and the response giving the listener some respect be to point out the differences rather than saying "aftermarket is shit and if you use it you are too and because you have dared to talk about it without calling it shit I'm not going to do anything for you from this date forward" nanananananana
    Do you understand what I'm saying. JBL doesn't continue to make parts for and repair certain discontinued items as a philanthropical effort. Certain aftermarket items are advertised as fixing factory problems, and not all of us have tons of experience with each device so if we're better off sticking with JBL thank you for telling us but give us some facts. allow us to do some critical thinking. Don't insult our inteligence by saying. It came with JBL parts so it will only be right with JBL products. If this is true, and I'll take your word, it is only because nobody else is making as good or better, not because it would be impossible for someone to do so. If there are company tie in's or somes brother inlaw, --- I have no idea what someone has done in the way of effort to provide I have no idea what in the way of backroom deals . If there are perks to belonging to whatever this is that's nice but they are only as good as you know they exist. I truly don't understand how someone keeps getting their feelings run over by a catterpillar and sounding like they are going cold turkey off prozac. I don't mean to be disrespectful. While I don't Know much about who contributes what I get the feeling that they contribute tons and maybe shit goes on I have no clue of . enough of that till someone pushes my button again. How is it that there are diaphragms that fit multiple drivers and yet the diaphragms from these drivers do not interchange? When replacing or disturbing the diaphragm in a jbl driver do you sweep it and go for max amplitude or howabout a lead to where it's discussed, if you would be so kind. Some of my stuff lately sounds a little preachy to me and I don't mean it to I don't have any right, not if you want to go by the glass houses bit but I read certain postings and either a dialouge has been going on a long time that I'm unaware of or someones under too muce pressure. It wouldn't be a bad idea for major players here to give short bios. Hardly know who to salute you know.

  6. #36
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Here we go...

    "Presuming that no after market device can compare, would not the adult response and the response giving the listener some respect be to point out the differences rather than saying "aftermarket is shit and if you use it you are too and because you have dared to talk about it without calling it shit I'm not going to do anything for you from this date forward" nanananananana"

    Sure... I don't think that the "you're a shit" etc. was actually implied initially... however, during the devolution of this and the previous thread, it would seem that we did eventually get there and I personally find that sort of thing rude and unnecessary. That said it is obvious from your statement above that the intended and useful message about the quality of JBL sourced diaphragms did eventually get across. I am not condoning anyone's posts on either side of this conversation, and I am hopeful that we can stop focussing on the negative and move forward.


    "JBL doesn't continue to make parts for and repair certain discontinued items as a philanthropical effort."

    Of course not, but in the scale of their business I really doubt that diaphragms and recone kits are a profit center... they may be a loss leader to promote their "quality image" or they may have another reason for continuing the production of diaphragms for products that were discontinued in the the '60s or '70s, but regardless of their motivation I think it is a wonderful practice and I would be very disappointed if they stopped it.


    "Certain aftermarket items are advertised as fixing factory problems..."

    I have never heard that one... but there is a heck of a lot of unadulterated BS in the marketplace.


    "...and not all of us have tons of experience with each device so if we're better off sticking with JBL thank you for telling us but give us some facts. allow us to do some critical thinking."

    Occasionally when these facts are given they are questioned and I think that is a major contributing factor toward the frustration that leads to the quick sharp and sometimes insulting responses... I know I have felt like posting "Read the previous post again... your question was answered five different ways. Are you an imbecile or do you just like to hear your keyboard click?"!!! Thankfully I usually realize what I am doing before I click on POST.


    "If there are company tie in's or somes brother inlaw, --- I have no idea what someone has done in the way of effort to provide I have no idea what in the way of backroom deals ...."

    To the best of my knowledge no one is getting any financial gain from this forum... and there is no direct connection with JBL or Harman. There is an abundance of brand loyalty and cheerleading, and for good reason... this site is about products made by the three companies that James Lansing was a significant contributor in. Most of us have a real passion for these products... so much so that we spend an inordinate amount of time clicking and reading.


    "I truly don't understand how someone keeps getting their feelings run over by a catterpillar and sounding like they are going cold turkey off prozac."

    It is a surprisingly common situation on this forum and others... communication via these discussion boards can be difficult and confusing. A seemingly straightforward post can be misinterpreted or extra meaning can be read into it and people begin flame wars... other times there is the history that develops and a poster may have too little patience with another poster and jump to conclusions far too quickly. As messy as it is, we typically deal and move on.


    "How is it that there are diaphragms that fit multiple drivers and yet the diaphragms from these drivers do not interchange?"

    I have no idea what you mean.

    "When replacing or disturbing the diaphragm in a jbl driver do you sweep it and go for max amplitude or howabout a lead to where it's discussed, if you would be so kind."

    Here is one of several threads describing the procedure:

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...d.php?p=110400


    "I read certain postings and either a dialouge has been going on a long time that I'm unaware of or someones under too muce pressure. It wouldn't be a bad idea for major players here to give short bios. Hardly know who to salute you know."

    If you want to know, read through the many years of saved posts... there is some good technical info there and a bit of a soap opera too... all of the players will be brought to life before your eyes.


    Widget

  7. #37
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    Quote: If you want to know, read through the many years of saved posts... there is some good technical info there and a bit of a soap opera too... all of the players will be brought to life before your eyes.


    Widget[/quote]

    Well said, Widget. Despite the daunting amount of material amassed here from over the years, it's a hell of a good read. From both perspectives - educational and entertaining.

  8. #38
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Im forwarding the contents of this entire forum to Hollywood!

    I dont know if they should make a soap opera or a sitcom out of the material.

    scottyj

  9. #39
    Gary L
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott fitlin View Post
    Im forwarding the contents of this entire forum to Hollywood!

    I dont know if they should make a soap opera or a sitcom out of the material.

    HOLLYWOOD! Now there is a crew the entire world could do well without!

    Gary

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary L View Post
    HOLLYWOOD! Now there is a crew the entire world could do well without!

    Gary
    What You don't watch movies ???

    This thread is de-railing

  11. #41
    Senior Member briang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound View Post
    Thom....that is where you are mistaken.

    JBL hasn't abandoned them. They still make parts for drivers that are over 50 years old.
    True, but...unfortunately JBL has abondoned me and my need of replacement parts for: 044Ti, 115H-1, 128H and 104H.

    The above not withstanding, I appriciate JBL's contiuned support of vintage equipment.
    Last edited by briang; 12-16-2006 at 11:19 AM. Reason: revise and extend remarks.
    Paying debt to Karma...

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Brennan View Post
    "Why bother buying, keeping or accepting JBL gear if you have no intention of maintaining it with correct parts. "

    To put it to use.

    "Secondly, why bother comming to the Lansing Heritage site where the entire purpose is in maintaining the sonic purity and history of JBL and Lansing products"

    I was unaware that you determine what the "entire purpose" of this site is.
    Here here!!

    I will say this, I feel it is a very worthy goal to maintain JBL components to their original standard. I have never said that after market parts were superior or even equivalent to original ones. Frankly I don't have that knowledge either way. I was also not aware that one or more forum members do (or did) make available genuine JBL parts at a discount price to forum members. Things are coming into focus now. Yes, I can see why said members could be frustrated upon seeing others use after market parts when the real deal is available for the same or a little more. Sorry, didn't know! I remain ignorant of whom from and how to obtain said parts. Unfortunately the competition, that as it is, is in my face on eBay and the internet hawking their wares, in contrast to the original. Oh if only JBL had a few pages on their pro website listing what remains of their replacement parts, so that they were only a few clicks away. Yes how spoiled and lazy some of us are, let the e-tent sale be damned! The same for eBay! I'm not serious about that, are you?
    I state for the record that I will always want a genuine JBL part in my components. That it is far easier to get after market parts does not justify using them, but why must it be that way? My first experience with non-JBL parts was negative, they were inferior, in a mechanical way, the diaphragm fit loosely on the alignment pins and the VC alignment would obviously be poor, to put it mildly. Beyond this I have no knowledge regarding parts sourced elsewhere, or in what aspects they might be inferior in performance. I request that those of you that know better state how they are inferior, such as poor build quality, non-flatness of frequency response or restricted bandwidth or subjectively sounding poor. One after-market parts provider claims "identical or superior performance to the original". Debunking that claim would certainly keep me from trying those parts. A forum member did just that in this thread, although in generalities, thank you! I thought that after market parts might be fine based on my experience with other types of parts, specifically when I learned that the name brand and generic parts were made in the same factory. Might this be the same here? It seems not. The post starting this thread mentioned that replacement diaphragms were deemed perfect, I never saw that post. Considering the strong opposition to that idea demonstrated in this thread, why would anyone stop making the originals available? Not that I ever knew they were available. I would hope you would reconsider no longer providing that service, how does that help to stop the very situation you find so abhorent?

  13. #43
    Gary L
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    What You don't watch movies ???

    This thread is de-railing
    As a matter of fact, I do not support the behaviors of the "SICK and FAMOUS". We prefer to listen to music in our home.
    I don't feel the thread is derailing at all and everyone is entitled to thier opinions. I fully respect every one of them but there is two sides and I am firmly on one. I don't fault anyone for the position they take and I am quite happy there are differing opinions. This thread, any thread for that matter, would be useless if we all agreed.

    Gary

  14. #44
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary L View Post
    HOLLYWOOD! Now there is a crew the entire world could do well without!

    Gary
    Nah - just let em make films (thats what they are good at!) and don't pay any attention to them when they get political.
    I mean, you don't take political statements from Athletes or musicians now do you?

    And if you don't like the films don't buy them.
    And if you don't like the music, don't buy it.

    I just wish we could can the whole paparazi media circus - just shut off all the media-hype info-tainment channels and "shows" -
    I have NO interest in Anna Nicole Smith, Tom Cruise, Paris Hilton or the rest of that clueless useless crowd ...
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
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  15. #45
    Senior Member briang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Nah - just let em make films (thats what they are good at!) and don't pay any attention to them when they get political. I mean, you don't take political statements from Athletes or musicians now do you?
    Nor do I get my politics from the press...sometimes I don't even take them from politicians...

    On topic (shameless self interested plug): I am in need of replacement parts for: 044Ti, 115H-1, 128H and 104H.

    Any and all help in locating replacement (JBL/OEM) diaphrams for the above listed parts is appreciated (and respected).
    Paying debt to Karma...

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