Model 19's vs Altec 846U Valencia SHOWDOWN COMING SOON!

[Storm]

No, Bloomington, California.

Anyone near there? I can certainly drive out of my way for the expertise of fellow members on this board.

Thank you.

-Storm

[louped garouv]

Unless you are a weight lifter, I would recommend a hand truck for the move. They can be picked up, but your back could suffer. They will eat up a lot of space. Make arrangements for where they will go in advance. And have fun. I sure have.

where are the bases that should be under your M19s? did you not get them with your pair?

they are remarkably simmilar in construction to the spacer between the bottom and top boxes... if you are interested

they are heavy, but resist the temptation to use the recessed space to lift the M19s, I have heard some horror sroties...

[JBLRaiser]

where are the bases that should be under your M19s? did you not get them with your pair?

they are remarkably simmilar in construction to the spacer between the bottom and top boxes... if you are interested

they are heavy, but resist the temptation to use the recessed space to lift the M19s, I have heard some horror sroties...

That part was missing from mine and I haven't attempted making some yet. So true about the inconvenience of lifting them. I have only picked them up twice. Getting them in the SUV and out to the chosen room. And was very careful.

[TnTn]

Storm,

I just looked at the auction pictures. It is just me but for $1600, I expect speakers in better conditions. This pair may have been listed a few times as I remember seeing it a while back. A few things I noticed:

- The cabinets have different shades
- The woofers and dustcaps have different shades as well.
- Sometimes when they are different, they might not sound the same.
- The bottom stands may not be original. Some people do care (I don't).
- The grill cloth could be replaced but hopefully the frames are intact.

I recommend that you bring a strong flashlight as well as a hand mirror. Use the flashlight and shine into the throat of the horns and make sure you see the tangerine phase plugs. Study the shape of the 802-8G and make sure the drivers in there are them (though the seller states that they are). Use the mirror through the slot to view the backs of the 416's magnets and make sure that they are the 416-8B model. The 802's are too far back so you can't see the label. My pair has factory code so the Altec model stickers are absence. The surround on the woofer on the right speaker looks a bit "runny". Make sure it is not hiding anything. If possible, and if the seller would accomodate, see if you could carefully remove the horns and check the 802's diaphragms. Most sellers probably won't accomodate this though.

Just a few pointers and I hope others will chime in. The reason I am bring all this up is b/c I have gone with friends to check out a few vintage speakers and most of them have been improperly messed with, i.e. with incorrect parts. I have experienced with this as well.

Good luck,
T.

[Storm]

Funny...I am just about 6 hours away from driving to pick these up. The drive is not bad at all, about 4 1/2 hours.

The speakers look fine to me. I own 846Us and my dad has had his eye on those, but they are not for sale. So, he decided to grab a pair of these and I am going to do an a/b comparison before they go into his condo.

I will double check the tangerine and I am sure I can spot the woofers, since I already know what to look for - I took apart mine about 3 months ago.

Thank you for your advice TNTN, it is greatly appreciated.

The price seems fair to me - they rarely come up for sale on the west coast and when they do, especially lately, they have been getting $1200-$1400, so paying a couple hundred just to make sure my dad gets a pair of the best Altec Speakers available, is not a big deal. Especially 20 years ago they retailed for $1600 per pair back in that money, so I feel this is an amazing deal.

Just like my Altec 846U's, I did not "Steal" them. Life is way to damn short to try and get "Steals"...if the item is worth it, why not spend the little extra cash just to make sure you can have enough time to enjoy the damn thing. Am I wrong?

Can any other members look at the photos and tell me if I should be "worried" and if so, what should I look for?

I will do the review on Sunday morning and post my results after a full day of comparison. I want to run through my entire CD collection, or most of it.

Until then, goodbye. Or, if you have any advice, I will read this thread in about 6 hours, I leave at about 9am Arizona time.



And yes, I am going to demand to listen to them first before we load them up.

[Gary L]

I won't comment on prices, that totally your Dads decision.
The grills are hammered and at the least need new cloth. At the worst I would expect to find the frames cracked or broken since they are poorly constructed of particle board which has no structural integrity to begin with.
The bases are not original! They too were particle board and would break quite easily or suffer water damage very quickly. Pictures are not defined well enough for me to see but the photo of the rears, left speaker might have some water damage to the cabinet bottom. This would be very serious because once particle board swells it never goes back and the repair is extensive if at all possible.
I would not expect these to be completely up to spec for your A/B testing as they are which is why I posted that in my original post.
All the components can be refurbished to good as new but do check to be sure the components are correct. Be certain the HF drivers are 802-8Gs with tangerines and this can be seen with a light by looking into the horn and thru the screen. You are looking for a plug, orange in color and with slits cut like a pie.
Most purists would want to have the alnicos recharged in both drivers and to be sure the diaphrams are correct and in good shape. Tangerine phase plugs come unglued and will rattle when they do so if you buy, when you get them home remove the horns, remove the driver motors and give them a shake. If the plug is loose, do not play them, reglue them first or your diaphrams are toast. They will sound pretty bad anyway if loose but the plug will be pounding on the diaphram dome destroying it.
I search for better prices because I would automatically want to refurbish all components before putting them on line. Remember you are buying 30 year old speakers and some maintainance is deffinately required!

Gary

[DaveV]

I'm remembering the morning in October I had to make the 4 hour trip east of Atlanta to pick up my 19's. The trip back seemed even longer! I paid $1000 for my pair but I ended up sending the 802's to Great Plains because one diaphram was functional but not right and I may have one woofer cone that isn't original so eventually the woofers will go out to be looked at and at least recharged. Add the cost of the rental truck and driver repairs and I'll be around $1600. Your Dads 19's do look like oak so that in itself might make them worth more because they seem to be less common. My grilles are in very good shape but I'll never use them because I love looking at the drivers but good grilles are important to some so they do add to the value for sure. I just felt that it was now or never because 19's don't usually show up so close to me. The last pair remotely close would have cost between $500 and $600 to move and who knows what I would have gotten. It's a crap shoot for sure. What I found most confusing was the Tangerine Phase Plug. In looking down the horn throats with a flashlight I saw copper/orange color things with thin radial spokes behind the bug screen but not being an orange color like the fruit I was still not sure I was getting 802-8G's but it turns out they are so don't expect a real bright orange color like I did. If you have a great seller that stands behind the product with nothing to hide they might let you remove the drivers but the 802-8G's probably won't have a label on them anyway so looking down the horn is really the best way. Some new owners say they sound great and are afraid to touch them and others have replaced the xovers with homebrews or the Iconic replacement. This along with other things might suggest that some xover caps survived better than others. A fellow in another forum that is a knowledgeable Altec fan says his newly acquired 19's sound fantastic and they must if he says so.
Mine did too until my excitement wore off some and I noticed distortion even at low levels. New caps took care of that problem but the tweaking continues. Now that I've heard the 19's I can't believe I lived with Flamencos for so long. I think the 19's are way smoother and way bigger sounding but I still think added tweeters crossed over high add another layer of depth and clarity as they did to the Flamencos. Good luck and have a safe trip.

Dave

[Gary L]

Looking into the bug screens you are either going to see these that look like spokes in a whell or pie slices.



OR these that are sliced in a circular patern.



Just my opinion here but if either is attached to an 800 series driver and the diaphrams are the same I seriously doubt many would even hear a difference. An 808-8A and 802-8G with the same diaphram is almost identicle in sound quality to my ears and they are the same motor just with different phase plugs.

I think for the sake of peace of mind the best thing any 19 owner can do is have all the drivers zapped so you know all is well and within spec.
You would not buy a 30 year old classic car and NOT change the oil and do some maint. so why should a 30 year old speaker be different?

Gary

[Storm]

Thanks guys for the advice.

I will certainly bring a flashlight and will test these speakers first before I move them. So, if there is any problem with anything, I am sure to hear it.

I will post comments later tonight and add photos. I will take pictures of everything.



Leaving in about 20 minutes.

[hjames]

Hey - good luck to ya! And a safe drive!

Thanks guys for the advice.

I will certainly bring a flashlight and will test these speakers first before I move them. So, if there is any problem with anything, I am sure to hear it.

I will post comments later tonight and add photos. I will take pictures of everything.



Leaving in about 20 minutes.

[Gary L]

OK, Now that Storm is on the road we can really mess with him!

Just kidding and hope all goes well.

Hey Heather, I sure would like to see a blow up of your Avitar pic. Looks pretty sweet but the magnifiers don't show much.

Gary

[hjames]

OK, Now that Storm is on the road we can really mess with him!

Just kidding and hope all goes well.

Hey Heather, I sure would like to see a blow up of your Avatar pic. Looks pretty sweet but the magnifiers don't show much.

Gary

Let me see --
Closeup of the 4320s - with added slot tweeter

And - mid thread of the refurb project

But - right now I'm in the midst of emptying the shelves so I can move the CD shelves out of the room and bring the speakers down to floor level for the next set of changes ...

[Gary L]

Very nice Heather! Think I would be getting the speakers down to ear level also!
It never ends, even when you finally get it right.

Wish you were here when I was building the grills for my Altecs. We could have had Stereo Ryobi's.



Gary

[hjames]

I remember seeing those when I first got here last November and started
reading all the threads here. Those are gorgeous! I really love the base-platforms, the boxes, and what you did with the grills ... splendid!

Real inspirations! My long term is to redo mine into 4 ways similar to the 4344/45 studio monitors (with 15" woofs, rather than the 18" woofers).
But project today is moving boxes and I've got a bit more to do before dinner and unwinding with my honey and a movie ...
I've posted an updated room pix in that 4320 thread ... so I don't hijack Storm's thread here ...

Very nice Heather! Think I would be getting the speakers down to ear level also!
It never ends, even when you finally get it right.

Wish you were here when I was building the grills for my Altecs. We could have had Stereo Ryobi's.



Gary

[Gary L]

HIJACK my A$$, Storm is out with his Dad doing a road trip and probably having a blast!
While the cats away the mice shall play and we are all waiting for the updates when they get home!

All kidding aside, like the room you set up better now but you might want them up a bit to bring them to ear level. Speakers are funny this way and want to be in your face.

Gary