Indeed, and it is especially confusing when the threads become garbled.Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
I am also finding it also hard to remember who has what, there are so many things a happening on the forums these days.
Like Giskard, I was wondering why this thread was needed for yet another discussion about the PT wave guides. I was specifically addressing the options for treble drivers in the classic factory 434X monitors.
David
Hi Dave ,
Yes I understand.
I think you will like what you hear when the new diaphragms are installed.
I would suggest that what you end up hearing is often the integration of your whole system, not just the diaphragms or the drivers or the horns.
Just how well it all works is often as case of attention to detail setting up. This is why I take comments about specifics with a gain of salt unless I relate it to my own rig if you known what I mean.
Can you post us another pic of your speakers please.
Ian
I just thought there might be some others who would be interested in hearing about my messing around with different drivers that will fit into these enclosures. Probably some of what I'm hearing that I would like to improve is coming from the crossovers, so that should be the next step for me after installing the new 16R2421's. I generally do prefer to listen to vintage speakers in the stock form made as good as it can be, but I had these drivers around for other projects and thought I'd see what happened.
I guess I thought my parameters were understood, but I should have articulated them clearly myself. It is certainly one advantage of building a speaker similar to one of the classic monitors, that if you want to cut a larger hole in the baffle there is no reason not to. I just couldn't consider hacking a 4345, and I don't really want a horn sitting on top of it either, so the discussion about alterations that would have involved either of these or a new box didn't seem relevant to me. I can see how someone else might find it interesting and valuable, though.
David
I wouldn't think so... but it is suprising what some people will do.
Widget
It sounds like the SL diaphragms worked out fairly well for you.
I, too, will be interested to hear how you find the other horns and diaphragms compare.
The 1.5 to 2" throat adapter with Be 2435HPL on 2311 sounds like it'd be workable, as well, if the impedance mismatch could be overcome. :dont-know
As it turned out, the distance from the coil to the horn exit was the shortest of the (3) combinations so it might have some issues at the lowest frequencies in that band BUT it sure had better dynamics and lower distortion than any other combo.
And the large format titaniums can be slammed without much worry compared to the $maller and fragile aluminum$.
I made the "2313" from a pair of beater H91 ( 2307 ) and if I remember correctly, the length would of been the same if I cut down a pair of 2312's since I simply measured from the mounting flange to the point where the I.D. was 1.5"
The 2311 / 2330 combo wasn't a direct fit since that adapter was for the altec 1.4" driver and the flange was too small for the larger of the (2) 1.5" mounting diameters.
I sold the 4345's before I was able to do much listening and my current projects use the 2332 ( array 90 degree ) so they now sit in the storage room.
If some enterprising member wants to borrow them for a listening / measurement test, let me know. I'm pretty sure the flanges are drilled for both of the 1.5" mounting diameters.
sub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giskard
It could be interesting to see someone come up with a 1.5" version of the old fog horn to retrofit into the 4344/4345 and maybe even 4355. I think subwoof had a pair but I'm not sure how that turned out.
Ya. He called it the 2313. He never reported on a listening test as far as I know. My personal hunch is that with a throatless driver like the 2435/435Be that horn would be too short. I think it should have been made from a 2312 instead of a 2307. I'd try it myself, but I don't have the shop facilities. On the other hand, that $210 Japanese 1.5" to 2" adapter on the 2311 would probably work as well.
Sure. I'll try them out since I'm working on 4344's, 4345's, and 4355's right now anyway. Thanks!
I'm puzzled by this because the 2312 goes from the same throat size to the same mouth opening over a longer distance. It must have a more gradual expansion. Anyway, I'm not advocating cutting up 2312's, which are less common. I think the thing to hack would be a pair of 2327's and bolt them to 2311's. If I run across a pair of beaters, I will have a run at it.
David
Ya, they are sounding pretty OK. Like the beryllium, there is a range of acceptable level settings.
Oh, yes. Thanks for the reminder.
David
David, as a 4345 owner, I would be very interested, though I must admit that I'm somewhat confused reading through all the posts.
For now, here is what I can understand:
1. A 2440/1 with a 2311 won't fit, due to the driver diameter encroaching on the dog box.
2. A method to mount a 1.5" driver to the opening in the baffle board is needed. Correct? Possible course of action is to somehow use a 2327 adaptor? How could this work?
3. As a point of reference, are your 4345's upgraded with new crossover capacitors? I hear what you are saying about retaining vintage parts but from what I have experienced, the old JBL OEM caps are "covering up" a lot of information, if they are still in use...
Charles.
PS I would sure be interested to know what Giskard is up to....
I think he is getting into Nascar now............
Project May
Custom 1200 Array Project using Be components
Custom K2-S5800 Project using Be components
Replacement of JBL 4406 5.2 mini surround sound system with Tannoy Dual Concentrics.
Three pairs of 4345's. (Still working on the final equivalent bandpass filter for the 2421/2425. Bi-amp only filter has been corrected for the 2122. The 2405 portion is complete.)
Four pairs of 4355's. (The final version of the stock equivalent network design is done as of this morning).
That was yesterday dude.
Hi Chas,
In short from my point of view its a whole system thing when it come a stock vintage setup or an upgrade, either way it must be balanced.
ie If you have vintage amps, vintage source etc stay with the stock crossovers and they will serve you well. If you think you want to ramp up to current day mass market, do so with you amps, source and crossover parts. If you want the best, go for the best in each area. If someone promises you the world with one update alone, they are pulling your chain(wankers!).
In reference to the stock crossovers, the improvements that can be made to them in total are quite revealing to the trained ear and go beyond the "those capacitors". To do that you need a baseline and need know what to look for and have a pair to pull apart and examine.
Unfortunately what some people think is better is in fact truely horrible but life goes on so trust your own ears.
You also need to have several levels of source, amps and parts from mass market all the way up the very best to be able to work all this out. The fact is there are few things that qualify as the very best. HK is not one of them but is the better end of mass market and suits most consumers needs well.
Back to those stock crossovers. I counted not less than (007) seven specific improvements to the stock crossovers that made in total a significant audible improvement to the subjective experience. Yet they remain true to their original form.
The total system that the improved stock crossovers will be used in is approaching a hi end audio system.
No snake oil, no false promises or marketing ploys. Mostly attention to detail and common sense. But most of all being thorough.
If a jobs worth doing, its worth do it well.
The transformation was a revelation!
In a short while the details will be published.
Ian
WOW!
Re. the 4345's: When you refer to the corrected biamp filter for the 2122, will this address GT's comment about the FR at 290 Hz?
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