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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Thumbs up EL84 Variant

    This goes out to any interested EL84 users. I have a single ended EL84 amp, a Grommes PHI-26. I have done some tube rolling and have finally found a real winner.

    At the suggestion of the designer, I tried the Soviet era 6P14P-EV. That is 6n14n-EB, more or less, in cyrillic. I obtained examples from Europe at: http://www.audiotriodes.com/

    EL84M tubes and new Electro-Harmonix stock are in no way the equivalent of these NOS 6P14P-EV units, despite E-H (New Sensor, actually) now using the old Reflektor factory in Saratov where these were manufactured.

    Noise is low to the point of extinction. In my amp's triode mode, the improvement over EH or JJ's was not subtle. Night and day. Tone is in a whole different class and power, mysteriously, is up at least 6dB, maybe much more. The tubes will make the trip over just fine, as the specs for mechanical toughness are off the scale. These were designed for military field use, after all.

    The only strange thing about them is warmup. Even a lengthly warmup does not prevent the volume level from starting off very low and building up to normal after one song or so. At least on my amp. So wait for it. Playing music seems to do the trick. Again, no explaination.

    There are plenty of Russian sites that have this tube, but I don't trust them personally. I can vouch for Audiotriodes, and their shipping was dirt cheap. The prices are in Euros, just use a converter to figure it out if you are not located in Europe.

    The bad news is that guitar amps are burning up NOS tubes at a furious rate, and the new stock plant is having "Russian" troubles. http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatur...newsensor.html

    Clark in Peoria
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  2. #2
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    I agree with you about NOS tubes. I have a piece that uses a 12AX7A, it comes with either a Ruby or Sovtek, they were OK, then I got some NOS Amperex 12AX7A,s from the `60,s. WOW, what a difference, not subtle either. Everything just sounds sooo right, so acoustic, so natural, easy on the ears, yet really dynamic and crystal clear beyond anything i have ever experienced.

    So, because I am aware of the fact that NOS tube supplies are being depleted quickly, and once gone, thats it, they are gone, I ordered enough of a supply to last me a LONG time!

    Found something you like? Buy a stock of it to last you a long time is all I can suggest!

    scottyj

  3. #3
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Nice advice, Scotty. I should have added that while some NOS tubes, like WE 300B's, are not tempting at the prices offered, the 6P14P-EV is still plentiful. I bagged matched quads for the same or less, including shipping, as two matched pairs of current offerings, at least at local price comparisons.

    I got two quads, wish I could have afforded more. At least they are expected to last 5000 hours each.

    Guess I could mention I also picked up two 6N1P's which ended up being ancient Orel pieces. Have not had time to try them yet. I don't expect them to be as good as my Sovtek dash EB's, but they were almost free and shipping was already a done deal.

    Clark
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    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  4. #4
    Senior Member Hoerninger's Avatar
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    May be it's of interest:
    The 6P15P can be used instead of the 6P14P. You only have to care that PIN 1 is used for g1. It's said that it sounds warmer.
    (Data sheets are attached).
    ____________
    Peter
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoerninger View Post
    May be it's of interest:
    The 6P15P can be used instead of the 6P14P. You only have to care that PIN 1 is used for g1. It's said that it sounds warmer.
    (Data sheets are attached).
    ____________
    Peter
    Thank you, Peter. I'll look over the sheets. If I can find 6P15P-EV's I will give them a try.

    Let me generally recommend, highly, this tool: http://www.duncanamps.com/tdslpe/
    It is free, very easy to use, and the data sheet links are fantastic. The .exe file is tiny.
    Download at the bottom of the page, then update the file when it starts.

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  6. #6
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    All I know is it amazes me at the quality of things made decades ago.

    Once I started using vintage tubes, there was absolutely NO going back.

    My ears tell me some of the things from the past, well, they really had it right.

    I LOVE vintage tubes.
    scottyj

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    ......Let me generally recommend, highly, this tool: http://www.duncanamps.com/tdslpe/
    It is free, very easy to use, and the data sheet links are fantastic.....
    As of 08/09/2006, version 1.1 became available if current users want to update. Handier than a used hankie!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    ....snip.....The bad news is that guitar amps are burning up NOS tubes at a furious rate......

    Clark in Peoria
    Hi, Clark,

    In defense of my fellow musicians, couldn't you just say NOS supplies are drying up rather than blame it on the pickers? In the case of EL84s, they're way more common in hifi apps than MI anyway, an EL84 MI amp is a pretty rare bird. After all, tube harmonic distortion is considered an absolute necessity by many musicians including myself, while audiophiles can easily do without it (and by technical definition should). I don't think you'd find listening to music produced entirely by SS gear through a tube amp in your living room to be very satisfactory at all.

    I'll see how many spare NOS El84s I have, and will send them to you as I've only one amp that uses them. It could take awhile though, as I have more tubes than time.

    I feel much better now....carry on!

    FenderBender in the dark

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moldyoldy View Post
    Hi, Clark,

    In defense of my fellow musicians, couldn't you just say NOS supplies are drying up rather than blame it on the pickers? In the case of EL84s, they're way more common in hifi apps than MI anyway, an EL84 MI amp is a pretty rare bird. After all, tube harmonic distortion is considered an absolute necessity by many musicians including myself, while audiophiles can easily do without it (and by technical definition should). I don't think you'd find listening to music produced entirely by SS gear through a tube amp in your living room to be very satisfactory at all.

    I'll see how many spare NOS El84s I have, and will send them to you as I've only one amp that uses them. It could take awhile though, as I have more tubes than time.

    I feel much better now....carry on!

    FenderBender in the dark
    Moldy,

    You are preaching to the choir here. I have a 1977 Mesa Boogie 100/50 watt with graphic, Hammond spring reverb, export transformer and all. Bought new, and I still have the corespondence from Randall and Rayven Smith, including the hand drawn schematic I asked for. When I say I'm into tubes, I mean into tubes. No one in their right mind wants to hear ss distortion.

    I just don't think that tubes which are destined to deliberately distort need to be the very tubes which will yield the sweetest undistorted tone on the planet. And shouldn't be. NOS tubes for music reproduction are a very finite resource. Being able to take more punishment before failing is a very different criteria from producing accurate but musical reproduction in the home. On that basis I think NOS audio tubes are partially wasted when used for musical instrument amps destined for distortion. The NOS tubes can do either job well, but newer tubes can not do justice to SET amps when the best possible stable performance is called for.

    I have no personal need to deprive any particular individual of their prized old tubes, but I do thank you for your offer. In fact, I wouldn't dream of taking anyone's tubes, but I would like to lengthen the period in history that they are available for sale. It is the trend that I am unhappy about. A tube that will last for years in hi-fi use could be dead glass and metal in the first leg of a tour. I remember Mick & Keith telling Guitar Player their SVT's were pretty much rebuilt after every night on the tour. That is not good news when it concerns a finite resource.

    Clark
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  10. #10
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Thats why I use a line level component, with a tube, instead of tube amps. Tubes in line level gear offer the taste of tube flavor, but last a long time.

    Amps in my application, long hours, hard use, tubes do not last. And vintage tubes are a finite source, and as many are now learning the joy of vintage tube sound, I see the source drying up even faster.

    When it comes to 12AX7A,s Im partial to Amperex and RCA, both are absolutely amazing sounding. The tubes made now, well, I found them to be too much tube coloration, I used Sovtek, JJ, Ruby, and Electro Harmonix.

    The old tubes sound natural, clean, and smooth, yet extremely dynamic, in that real sort of way only tubes do. Vocals through my vintage tubes have an acoustic sound, something I have grown very fond of, and Im getting this sound out of CD,s no less. Vinyl can sound absolutely incredible.

    They always used to say that McIntosh stopped making tube amps when they did, because they couldnt get good tubes anymore. In my listening comparisons, the new tubes, well, they are tubes, but they dont really sound the way tubes sounded when tubes were really it! I like tubes from the 1960,s!

    The right tubes are some powerful magic, at least I think so.

    scottyj

  11. #11
    Senior Member alexkerhead's Avatar
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    Like I said earlier, most newer tubes are made for guitar amps and not musical amps.
    Even if they do not say so, they are relabeled guitar amp tubes 80% of the time.
    I have a pair of Sovteks in on of my tube amps and they are definetely colored with crayons. Best thing todo is find NOS tubes that were designed for old tube amps, tube receivers, and console tube amps.

  12. #12
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    Current unlimited ebay search results for el84 nos and 6bq5 nos. Note there's not a single one in Musical Instruments. Not definitive, but a pretty good indicator of who's depleting the NOS supply of this particular tube;
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