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Thread: L-200 woofer changes

  1. #1
    Senior Member mbottz's Avatar
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    L-200 woofer changes

    I have a set of empty 200 cabinets which I am looking to fit with components. I have aquired a set of 2225H's which are quite nice and was wondering if these would be a good fit? Looking at the specs they say 30 to 2K with a recomended crossover of 12K. This seems to fit the criteria of the original crossover parameters. I need some expert opinions here as I do not wish to spend a lot of time tweaking these cabinets. I would rather enjoy listening to them. If they are a reasonable fit, should I plug one port or leave them as is?

    Feel free to chime in here Zilch as I know you have lots of experience in this area.

    Thanks in advance for your help

    Mike
    Restoring the legend, one cabinet at a time

  2. #2
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Not sure of your end goals here......

    But since you have all the parts, give it a shot and report back to us.

    I would not expect a lot of bass response, but should sound decent enough.

    Mostly, it comes down to what you need it to do!

    Ron
    JBL Pro for home use!

  3. #3
    jbl
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    Try it with the 2225. I have the 2225 in the 4507, 5 cubic foot cabinets. About the same size cabinet as yours. Sounds great. Produces plenty of bass.

  4. #4
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    For 2225H, don't plug a port, which would tune it too low. Just swap in the new drivers and enjoy.

    They will not have the extended bass that 2235H and retuning the cabinets would provide, but they'll have plenty of "kick."

    What're you doing for the high end then?

  5. #5
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbottz
    I have a set of empty 200 cabinets which I am looking to fit with components.
    How empty? Meaning which crossover will you use, one of your own design or an off the shelf model?

    What compression driver/horn will you use?

    A 2225 will work depending on the answers to the other two questions... I would recone them with 2235 kits myself, but if you are more into head banging and loud than hi-fi the 2225 is a better choice than a 2235. Conversely...


    Widget

  6. #6
    Senior Member mbottz's Avatar
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    I have a few choices for the HF

    I can either use the LE85's or 2441's I have the short horns for the 2441's and the h91 for the le85. I wish to have more hi-Fidelity, as I listen to artists with talent, as well as some vintage Rock and roll. I like solid Bass but not boomy. If I can do something simple to better tune the enclosure like building a box of some type to reduce the cabinet size I can do that easily. I have the stock crossover for 12K but am not apposed to building a custom unit if the benefit warrants it. Keep the suggestions comming as I wish to only do this once if possible.

    Thanks all for the great Advice

    Mike
    Restoring the legend, one cabinet at a time

  7. #7
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    The standard tuning of L200 is fine for 2225H. If I get time this weekend, I'll load one and measure it.

    Assuming the efficiency of 2225H and LE15B are similar, the L200's LX16 crossover (1.2 kHz, actually,) may work. I'd keep LE85 with H91.

    BUT, your real problem for Hi-Fi is the VHF. You need to add a tweeter, perhaps 2404H or 2405H (077), and an additional crossover, 3105 (N7000, N8000). The "Keeper" crossover developed in these forums is also an option, if you want to go three-way, and Giskard posted a version of the L300 crossover that might be adapted, though I haven't tried that one myself.

    L200 has poor high frequency response, and attempting to boost it as in L200B runs up against a drastically narrowing vertical beamwidth with H/L91. I can try that, too, and see. It may work well enough.

    I don't know if 2441 on the short horn can be "pushed" to play VHF, or how it behaves. Adding the tweeter is the best answer, unless you're willing to get radical using a different horn in a quasi-4430 two-way conversion....

  8. #8
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbottz
    I have the stock crossover for 12K...
    I assume you mean the 1200Hz LX16. This crossover was designed for the 4 ohm LE15B... I absolutely wouldn't use it. I also wouldn't use ANY 15" woofer above 800Hz in a Hi-Fi application.


    Widget

  9. #9
    Senior Member mbottz's Avatar
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    Crossover ?

    Is there a fairly simple modification I can do to the LX 16 to bring it down to 800hz and mate with the 8ohm driver. Then I can start looking for a 2405 / 077 with 7000 crossover to add to it.

    Keep it simple for us novices!!

    Thanks

    Mike
    Restoring the legend, one cabinet at a time

  10. #10
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    I'd use 3110 for a clean shift to 800 Hz.

    Widget's right. The frequency will only go higher with a higher impedance driver.

    I'll measure it, anyway, to confirm....

  11. #11
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    LE15B Fs = 27 Hz, Zmin = 4.10 Ohms
    2225H Fs = 47 Hz, Zmin = 7.09 Ohms

    2225H in L200 Cabinet:

    Fm = 34.24 Hz
    Flo = 24.16 Hz
    Fhi = 63.94 Hz
    Fc = 60.25 Hz
    Fb = 32.28 Hz, the box tuning with 2225H in it

    I can only approximate the LF response with a nearfield measurement between the ports and the woofer (top photo).

    Red = no filter
    Green = with 3110

    Then, normal 1M measurements:

    Cyan = add LE85 on HL91. The dip at 650 Hz is not corrected by reversing phase. Time alignment in the box may be better. Woofer and horn are kinda far apart in my test setup, as well.

    And finally, add 3105 and 2405H (courtesy Johnaec) = Blue

    It sounded quite "horney" until I added the 3105 and UHF driver. 3105 has a lowpass filter to shut down the LE85 above the 7 kHz crossover frequency.

    Bass is good and strong, but you'll want a sub or switch to 2235H for the extended bass this box can produce....
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  12. #12
    Senior Member jbl4ever's Avatar
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    LX16 xover

    Check to see if you have a LX 16 or 16A. The 16A uses a .7mh coil and a
    6uf cap part #10296 if you can see the number on the cap. To rebuild one
    with better parts cost about $50 with Solens,Audiocap and Mills. Does help the Xover.

  13. #13
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    O.K., here's what BB6P says we've got (black) as opposed to 2235H with one port closed (red).

    The difference is major.

    JBL's recommended 40 Hz tuning for 2225H (blue) would require shortening the ducts.

    BB6P suggests 35 Hz tuning for 2225H in this size box, intermediate between the black and the blue.
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  14. #14
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    More:

    So, can I confirm the BB6P sims via measurement?

    Using sinusoidal rather than MLS, I can read down to 10 Hz, and it does better measuring vented box nearfield, ~8" centered between port(s) and woofer.

    2225H, both ports open, as above, Red.

    With both ports open, 2235H tuning is 34.43 Hz, roughly equivalent to 4430, Orchid.

    One port closed, it's 24.66 Hz, extended bass, Blue.

    For comparison, LE15B, Green, both ports open per stock L200(A), has the extension of 4430 plus 3 - 4 dB of "boom" from 60 - 200 Hz.
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  15. #15
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Still more:

    Can LE15B be tamed by retuning the box?

    Only minimally. It can achieve greater bass extension, with one or both ports closed. There are likely other limitations, such as cone excursion, in these alignments, tho.

    All done with this, now. 2235H is back in, and one port closed....
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