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Thread: DX-1 XPL-200 Frequency Card Discrepancies

  1. #1
    Senior Member pasadena's Avatar
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    DX-1 XPL-200 Frequency Card Discrepancies

    Hi all,

    After listening to my XPL-200A's for a little while, I was getting impatient looking at my DX-1's sitting there doing nothing because I did not have a second stereo amplifier to utilise them.

    So, off I went to my wife's uncle's place and borrowed his Dr. Thomas Music Fidelity pre and stereo power amp. After fiddling with the power taps to convert my DX-1's to 220v, I went about horizontally bi-amping my 200's. I hooked up my exisiting NAD 208THX for low frequency and the Dr. Thomas power amp for high frequency.

    Before I connected up the DX-1, I was using my NAD 208 to bi-wire the 200's. My impression of the 200's without the DX-1 was that the soundstage was moderately wide, replication of instruments was very detailed and revealing in the top end, vocals were forward and almost like you could touch them and the bottom end provided enough bass extension that was definite but not tight and not so much a fuller sound as compared to my B&W 801's.

    With the DX-1 connected, my experience was somewhat surreal yet amazed with a dash of intrigue thrown in. So, the story goes like this.......

    I hooked up my DX-1, turned everything on and waited with bated breath. My reference was Patrcia Barber's Cafe Blue, track 10 "A taste of Honey" and Nora Jones' Come away with me, track 10 "Painter Song."

    To say that the DX-1 made a difference is an understatement. To me, the DX-1 was stunning, so much that I didn't think such a change was possible. The articulation of instruments was so defining. The sound stage was much wider and the definition of vocals was yet more revealing.

    What I did notice was that the placement of the singer or vocals was more set back, it's as if the sound stage was stretched wider and the vocals pulled back into or further away from the listener. The other point I noticed was that even though the high end was so crisp.....I began to think that it was too crisp....like almost unreal and that the top end was somewhat too bright/tinny.

    Something just didn't sound right. Funny, something so stunning yet I was so intrigued. I came to the conclusion the the top end was so accurate yet lacking some body. I started to think where or what might the problem be.

    Than I started to think back when I purchased the DX-1 and cards and it came to me. The cards I purchased were a set of S5500 and a set of S9500 cards. When I found out that bbn04 sent his DX-1 back to Greg Timbers for modification, I contacted Greg personally and struck up a deal where I gave him my 2 sets of cards in return for 2 sets of XPL-200 cards. The S5500 cards were then sent back to bbn04. Everyone was a happy camper.

    So, for arguements sake, I rigged up my second DX-1 and whacked it into the system and noticed a change where the soundstage was as wide but the vocals were more forward/close to the listener and the brightness was not so extraordinarily bright.

    So, I decided to pull both DX-1's apart again and take photos of the both sets of cards and have posted them here to see if there were any differences. Looked at the photos/cards myself, I noticed the resisitors on the LF Set 1 R208 was inverted as compared to R207. LP Set 2 R208 and R208 are the same. The HF cards were the same and therefore should not have made any differences to the way the top end sounded. My question is, which cards are the proper 200's and what's the deal with the inverted resistor on LP Set 1 R208? Anyone care to explain if inverting the resistors was a mistake or made up to match another speaker? Maybe a remnant or a modified card that didn't get completely converted back to an XPL-200 card.

    I've labelled the first set of cards, which I found to be really bright and crisp as DX-1 HP/LP Set 1. The set I am now running is DX-1 HP/LP Set 2 in a different DX-1. When I have a bit more time, I will inspect the internals of both my DX-1's and see if there are any differences.

    I would also like to get some comments/suggestions on changing the op-amps inside the DX-1. Greg has suggested replacing with OP275's. I've heard and read that the AD826 is a much better choice and sounding op than the 275?

    Any help here would be much appreciated.

    Cheers
    Pasadena.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member pasadena's Avatar
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    Values for LP and HP Set 1 (not in use).

    LP:
    C207: Y394
    C208: Y394
    C211: U273
    C212: U273

    HP:
    C103: Y683
    C104: Y683
    C105: Y683
    C106: Y683

  3. #3
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Pasadena

    Two things, the resistors are not polarized so it should make no difference. If things sound a bit bright try increasing the low end level just a tad, It could be a slight in-balance in levels. If you look at the voltage drive the bass level is up a bit.

    Rob

  4. #4
    Senior Member pasadena's Avatar
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    Another note I wish to add is a modification that has been done to both my DX-1's. They were already there when I bought them.

    As you can see from the pic, the mod has been applied to the LF-R negative input. This section, if you refer to the DX-1 manual, states that you can use the LF-L neg and LF-R neg if using bridged amplifiers.

    As I am not bridging my amps for the bottom end, this does not apply. However, this should not affect my current setup, is that correct?

    Cheers
    Pasadena.
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  5. #5
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Pasadena

    My DX-1 has a similar modification and if you look at the posted schematic it is on there as well.

    Rob

  6. #6
    Senior Member pasadena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606
    Hello Pasadena

    Two things, the resistors are not polorized so it should make no difference. If things sound a bit bright try increasing the low end level just a tad, It could be a slight inbalance in levels. If you look at the voltage drive the bass level is up a bit.

    Rob
    G'Day Rob,

    I noticed in your posts when you were making up your boards you quoted saying "There are a couple of issues that came up and both were mistakes in the DX-1 schematic. R104 and R106 are switched on the HF side and the right and left side LF blocks are also switched. The best way to verify the actual pin connections is to use photo's of the boards."

    What did you find out in the end and does any of this apply here?

    Cheers
    Pasadena.

  7. #7
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Can you isolate whether it's the cards or the chassis? Perhaps you've done this already...

    -grumpy

  8. #8
    Senior Member pasadena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy
    Can you isolate whether it's the cards or the chassis? Perhaps you've done this already...

    -grumpy
    All I've done so far was to install the second set of cards into the second DX-1 and I have noticed a difference.

    I have the sets of cards from the first DX-1 unplugged so when I get some time over the next few days, I'll plug these cards into second DX-1 I'm using and run some comparisons.

    It could be that the chassis may be the problem, if so then it's something harder to isolate but I can go and run a multimeter over all the components to see if any of them have failed.

    It could end up being a numbe of factors causing this anomaly, if you can call it one.

    Cheers
    Pasadena.

  9. #9
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Pasadena

    The errors were just transpositions of the reference designations. The actual schematic was correct as far as part layout is concerned. The errors would not effect you at all, only if you tried to build from just the schematic with known resistor values. How did you set the gain for the lowpass section?? I had to use my RTA to balance the levels.

    Rob

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    Mark,

    I would be surprised if some level adjustments were not necessary.

    Ian

  11. #11
    Senior Member pasadena's Avatar
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    I can't help notice that sound levels seem to be higher from the right channel as opposed to the left. It's noticable enough to be of concern. I've noticed this with both DX-1's.

    My next step will be to swap the cards out in my DX-1 currently in-use and see what the results are. If the outcome is still the same, then what changes internally on the DX-1 can be made to even things up?

    I could increase the DB levels for the left channel on the receiver or what about the toggle switch on the back of the XPL-200's, which is to set the high frequency contour, currently set to flat but can be changed to -2db?

    I've been reading some forums around the place and since I want to get into hi-fi consulting I might as well invest in some alayzing equipment, which would be useful in my case.

    I'm thinking of getting the Behringer ECM8000 measurement microphone, TrueRTA Level 4 software analayzer and a Behringer UB 802 8 channel mixer. I've heard that the BFD's Parametric Equalizer, the Feedback Destroyer Pro DSP1124P is useful product to get as well. All the above are pretty cheap and a worthwhile investment.

    If anyone has any other recommendations or opinions are most welcome.

    Cheers
    Pasadena.

  12. #12
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I can't help notice that sound levels seem to be higher from the right channel as opposed to the left. It's noticable enough to be of concern. I've noticed this with both DX-1's.
    Hello Mark

    Something doesn't sound right?? You have a level balance issue between channels??? That's something I didn't have an issue with at all. The DX-1 was a drop in except for setting the level on the Low Pass section. You have this problem with both of them??? Are you sure it's the DX-1. How are you doing the biamping?? You using the same amp on the woofers and a different amp on the upper 3 drivers??? It just seems odd as the Low pass levels are slaved to the same knob and that's the only adjustment you have. You can't adjust the high pass gain at all.

    Rob

  13. #13
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    Mark,

    Should'nt you be doing some Work??

    If you want to discuss it I am at home...on new mobil.

    Ian

  14. #14
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    I think that you just need to get a function generator and an AC voltmeter and test the cards.

  15. #15
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    I agree.

    The needs to be some analysis and measurement done.

    If Mark would like to mail one over I could check it out.

    I must says its odd.

    Ian

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