2235 Break in Time

[locanti]

Originally posted by Earl K
Hi Wolf

I refurbish the old Lansoly surrounds on le10s & le14s

Hi Earl

I'd heard once about refurbished LANSALOY surround but always wander how it can be done.Do you use some Brake-oil or thinks like that and is the result to your wishes with LE10A and LE14S?I have to change surrounds on a pair of LE10a unless their still in good shape but sticky.

[4313B]

Just an FYI

Lansaloy is a petro-chemical organic based compound that will deteriorate over time. Minimizing its exposure to moisture, temperature, ultra-violet light and atmospheric contaminants (smoking for instance) will prolong it's life.

JBL replaced Lansaloy free of charge up until the warranty on the very last of the Lansaloy transducers ran out. (Actually they extended that warranty until the mid 80's as a good will gesture)

Lansaloy is awesome when new. It's junk soon after if not taken very good care of. I think Earl's work in figuring out a way of restoring it is commendable!

[Earl K]

Thanks Rob

I do agree with you that full reconing is the way to go.

2235 cone kits are presently a bargain ( IMHO ) , and their price seems to reflect a JBL commitment to a current supportability. The le series doesn't appear to enjoy the same status. Though, it's arguable that any perception of lessening JBL support for the le series is just a bonafide reaction to disappearing consumer demand . Too bad this is when I'm discovering these "white" Aquaplas wonders . Hence my accumulation.

<> Earl K

[Rolf]

Yes! I guess Giskard's input makes the point.

My own experience is that after I got my original 2231A's woofers re-coned with the 2235H re-coning kit, I could hear a clear difference...for the better.

So you guys who wants to keep you speakers as original as possible : OK! .. but you don't want your speakes to sound at their best.

Do you agree???

Rolf

[4313B]

"So you guys who wants to keep you speakers as original as possible : OK! .. but you don't want your speakes to sound at their best."

Well, let's take a 4331 and a 4430. Regardless of anyone's opinion, the 4430 is by far the superior loudspeaker. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Everything about the 4430 reeks of superior engineering as compared with the 4331.

Now, plug the 4430 and the 4331 into an amp and play some recorded music through them both for a group of people and there very well may be some who prefer the sound of the 4331 over the sound of the 4430. That's opinion based on perception. Going further, a particular person may conclude that certain material may sound better on the 4331 and other material may sound better on the 4430. And what a person finds to be the most pleasing listening experience is all that matters in the final analysis regardless of which loudspeaker is the "superior" loudspeaker.

Despite all that, I still shake my head in complete bafflement when someone says they prefer Klipsch or Bose I suppose if I soaked my head in a vat of animal fat for a day I might be able to change my perception sufficiently to prefer Klipsch or Bose too?

D'Oh!

I just amuse myself endlessly...

[Mr. Widget]

Now, grouping Klipsch and Bose? You are being a little hard on Klipsch.

[4313B]

My intent was to be a little hard on Bose

[Mr. Widget]

Oh, I see.

[4313B]

I definitely get your point though Rolf. I like to upgrade and improve my systems whenever some new idea comes along. I've owned many JBL's over the years and some I simply didn't want to upgrade or improve because I felt they were dead ends. Others that have fallen by the wayside I think I would like to revisit and try new things with.

I will try to get to the 1.55mH tapped autotransformer solution this weekend. G.T. found one and sent it out to me to measure, I've just been putting it off because it's a bear to do. You know, it's the old "first one is a challenge, second one is a chore" thing. BTW, I've noticed that JBL might have "found" a bunch of old parts. It appears many of the 4430 and 4343 network parts are available again... Have you given any thought at all to adding a 2121/2122/2123 to your 4333's? Currently it costs half as much to build a 2121 or 2123 as it does to build the awesome 2122 (naturally ) but that's cool because you would most likely want to build a 2121 anyway.

[Earl K]

Hi locanti

Originally posted by locanti


I'd heard once about refurbished LANSALOY surround but always wander how it can be done.Do you use some Brake-oil or thinks like that

Yes, DOT 3 (FORD type ) Brake Fluid softens up hardened Lansaloy. DOT 5 (GM type ) doesn't react with the LansaLoy but has other uses in a complete surround restoration. ONE lightly painted on application of fluid ( to the back of the le10 surround ) will drop the Fs of a petrified surround down about an octave ( Fs is usually about 120 hz when the surround is completely dried out ) . It hits 60 hz in about 12 hours . A wait of 48 hours is highly recommended to make sure the drop in Fs has actually leveled out . Fs should be monitored on a regular basis - like every 6 to 8 hours for this very first application. If a person can't measure Fs, then doing a second application is flirting with disaster because you can go too low ( loose ). All these old le10 woofers will have flimsy / loose spiders by this point in their lives. The flimsier you make the surround/ suspension , the more that old, tired spider has to work at keeping the coil centered. Loose surrounds will easily equal "scraped voice-coil". Then you must recone anyway. A single little bit of brake fluid will stain the aquaplas. I thought I was washing my hands enough but apparently not. Sort of like ; eating peanuts, washing up , sitting down to read a glossy magazine and finding you are still leaving fingerprints on the pages .
If a second application is made then Fs monitoring should be done more frequently. Say, every 4 hours. The amount "applied" should give the untreated surround - a wet leather look, but not a "soaked to the skin leather" look . ie; One shouldn't be able to see any glossy sheen. That's TOO MUCH fluid. Wipe some off with a paper towel . It pays to be patient with this stuff and apply fluid in smaller increments over many days. But if you can't measure Fs , then this is all just a roll of the dice. Who knows where you started and where you'll end up? A brake fluid surround will also eventually start to dry out ( months, not years ) - so these treatments shouldn't be considered as permanent fixes. The newly "ruptured- but treated" LansaLoy will dry out faster than the original time period. This is another reason why a full recone from the start is the best way to go . I've worked on a coating goop to keep the DOT 3 from evaporating out of the surround. It involves DOT 5 fluid and silicone mixed together. This step is even trickier to implememt . Since it locks in the established Fs, if a person can't measure Fs , then ignore the thought ..

and is the result to your wishes with LE10A and LE14S?

Yes the results are satisfactory. But it's not a simple procedure. The le10 surround is quite thin.Because of this, a drop in Fs below 30 hz will result in the LansaLoy actually ballooning " twisted balloon-like " as the LansaLoy continues to expand past its natural point of shape retention. The cells of the surround are actually ruptured by the brake-fluid and then the surround continues to drink & drink till it "hurts itself" . The Le14 which has a thicker surround is not nearly as prone to these problems .

I have to change surrounds on a pair of LE10a unless their still in good shape but sticky.

Well , here, I'm confused too . Always best to have a Pro evaluate the woofers condition ( that would involve, at the very least, an Fs measurement , a visual inspection and a proper tone sweep - would be nice to get an impedance curve ). Again, a recone is a lot easier .

regards <. Earl K

[Rolf]

Can I build a "box" with the midrange woofer, and put it on the top/beside/under my 4333A's?

Rolf

[John]

What type of glue is used to secure the spiders to the voice coil former in the LE-15A woofer??? Is it a type of epoxy???

[Guido]

Originally posted by Giskard
Currently it costs half as much to build a 2121 or 2123 as it does to build the awesome 2122 (naturally ) but that's cool because you would most likely want to build a 2121 anyway.

Hi Giskard!

Could you explain me that? The recone sets costs all the same and the baskets are heavy to find even in Germany.
How the hell should Rolf find one in Norway?

[Rolf]

Originally posted by Guido
Hi Giskard!

Could you explain me that? The recone sets costs all the same and the baskets are heavy to find even in Germany.
How the hell should Rolf find one in Norway?

Hi Gudio.

Do you mean recone kits to JBL woofers???

Rolf

[Guido]

@ Rolf

Of course you can find recone kits in Norway!

But the 2121, 2121H or 2122H is very hard to find.

Guido