Thom sounds like a one man lynch mob without hearing the Everest.
Thom sounds like a one man lynch mob without hearing the Everest.
At this late date I should no longer be surprised, but it does continually amaze me how little it matters when someone who knows what he is talking about and should be recognized as knowing what he is talking about comes on and posts. It doesn't seem to have any effect on the flow of opinion, self-justification and irrelevance in disregard of the facts.
On the other hand, it might be worthwhile to try to understand what is energizing all this noise. It seems to be the case that the joy in celebrating the history of the JBL we all love is for many LH members outweighed be the feeling that the icon of that celebration signifies that we, and the rest of the common folk, are left out of consideration. The pragmatic here includes the fact that many of us are buying old JBL stuff we could not afford in the day and we are getting a lot of satisfaction over the idea that if it is not as good as Mr. Wilson's it's damn good anyway. And we are grateful that JBL still makes cones and diaphragms for it. But the new Everest is telling us that history will repeat itself, and there is nothing we can do about it.
That sticks in the craw of your average American working-guy-with-a-table saw JBL nut (and some from other places too).
OK so maybe we're showing a little lack in the generosity of heart it takes to overlook our own selves for a minute, and we should be scored for that. But I'm seeing denial in some quarters that along with being a statement about JBL engineering and art, the new Everest is also a political statement, and introducing it in Japan is a political statement as well as a marketing decision. There are historical reasons that JBL can find a market in Europe and Japan for the upscale models, having to do with American faux snobbery based in part on the way JBL has conducted itself in business. But it's also true that in the once feudal societies of Japan and Europe the people are more accustomed to seeing the nobility make off with the best. In this country we are not practiced in taking care of our wealthy and privileged. We are not yet feting them in the style to which they would like to become accustomed, though under the guidance of the present administration great progress has been made.
Most of the LH people don't feel like we have time to wait for the trickle down from this project, so, oddly, we don't feel as though something has been added to our JBL experience--we feel like something has been taken back.
From our point of view perhaps it would have been better for JBL to celebrate its 60th anniversary with a product for the people--a domestication of its prowess in professional speakers within reach of people with regular incomes. After all, it's not the Paragons what have enabled JBL's survival as much as the L100 accident. But I'm thinking more of the marketing of components with enclosure help as we had in the 50's, 60's and 70's. I'm even thinking back to the days when JBL offered the Hartsfield cabinet with the D208 and then outlined an upgrade path. It may not have worked very well, but it was a compassionate gesture and gave the common folk the feeling they were included.
David
David,
Well thought out. I must print it for my audio history scrap book.
I can't say I disagree. Perhaps JBL will come out with a counter measure like post 192. I really don't think its anyones responsibility to think any different nor is it a matter for moderation.
This is not the first marketing stuff-up for JBL or for Don for that matter!
As I recall there was a similar dilema with the sharing of the what was Mike's JBL project for Don that quickly become project May when Don laid eyes on it. Because of the exclusivity and cost of the new JBL drivers for project May a watered down version was considered for a time as a diy alternative to team members who wished to participate using more readily available and affordable JBL drivers.
Perhaps this approach deserves some thought here under the circumstances. The basis of the design has alot of merit, I like its simplicity and purity. Someone might wish to open a DIY thread and survey the interest in developing a viable kit.
Your whole post is excellent! I think your analysis is probably correct though I still find this thread to be weird. I certainly expect that JBL's investment in these speakers will prove to have been a good one. A handful of people on some fan site screaming into the wind about nonsense has nothing to do with JBL's market.Originally Posted by speakerdave
Widget
Shane, that is a real mean spirited post. You and I have no idea how these speakers will actually perform, but from any objective perspective a loudspeaker that is built like this with this level of attention to detail is absolutely an ultimate product. If you plop the Focal woofers that Dave Wilson uses in his $135K Alexandria speakers down on the table next to the pair of 1501ALs from the DD66000 it is obvious that the engineering and design of the JBLs outclass the Focals. If you prefer red paint and chromed top and back plates to a massive alnico motor structure using JBL's SFG magnet circuit with flux stabilization rings and JBL's patented anti compression gap cooling that's fine, but there is no way you can say that the Focals are more ultimate.
You and I may like the sound of the Wilsons more, we may not... only listening to them will tell us that. I would certainly prefer to look at the JBLs and have them in my house... those painted plastic boxes that Dave Wilson sells do sound great, but if I had them they would be hidden behind a scrim. They are butt ugly in my opinion.
Widget
Because GTimbers has said so...I didn't say it is the best loudspeaker ever made... I said it was the best JBL. I am taking Greg's word for it. He knows JBL.
Widget
We can assume you are done, then?
Yes...Dave's post is indeed a very good and pragmatic analysis. I think most JBL devotees are insulted that JBL has produced a Commemorative product that they know will somehow not appeal to the US market, yet make it a global product sold here... and have somehow managed to keep out of financial reach to those of us that lusted over JBL in our youth by saying, "...someday.." Well...what a tease....someday will still never come even though we make decent money.
In a way...it's cruel...and this PR disaster that Ian pointed out, is again JBL marketing's own doing.
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
PR Disaster? Based on what?
Widget
Actually, there is no PR disaster. When they go to the CES, 99.9% of the people attending that show, have never read this forum, nor would they care.
The opinions formed at that show will be based on whatever JBL has to show.
scottyj
There's a palpable sentiment that the home market has been ignored. Would you call that a PR success? I wouldn't....not in this forum, anyway.
Granted...it looks to be a stunning product, and that's great. But it never was intended for the US market...that's in a way, insulting.
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
I see a lot of comments that JBL left the US customers in the dust.
Well, Project array systems were available in the states(hard to get I know, but bought by some on this forum).
There is probably less than 5 members of this forum who could afford the D66000's, but a flagship model was not designed and engineered for the masses.
A lot of technology from this model will eventually trickly down to what we can afford.
We should be appreciative the info is shared on the Everest project!
Ron
JBL Pro for home use!
The degree of self importance here is really stunning. If you actually go and tally the individuals who have expressed an opinion on Everest in this thread, you will find that the majority recognize it for what it is - a statement product that embodies the legacy of the company and builds on it to produce the highest expression of their technology and skill. While those that understood congatulated JBL, made their point and moved on, the dissenters have hijacked this thread in what is becoming a ridiculous crusade to convert everyone to their isolated worldview. For example, we have numerous individuals that have never bought anything new from JBL in their lives complaining that the statement speaker wasn't designed for them. Of course it wasn't. By nature, a statement product is targeted at the highest level of the market, and in its intended field, Everest has exceeded expectations in both press reaction and orders.
I am particularly incensed by the accusation that JBL has not reached out to this website and its members. Our site has had unprecedented access to both the development and unveiling of this system. What other audio company has invited a fan site to be part of their official delegation to an overseas product launch? What other audio company has their chief designer giving input to a public forum and providing detailed internal documentation. Given the current crusade by the few dissenters, I don't know how much longer that will last.
I see no marketing or PR disaster, only a deluded expression of self importance from a handful of people that are largely not customers of JBL products (at least not new products). Let me try and put this in perspective. We only have around 5000 people that have shown enough interest in JBL products to have registered to join the forum. Of that, only a few hundred are regular posters. Out of that, a small handful want JBL to build their marketing strategy just around them. Even within that group, there is no uniformity on exactly what that strategy should be. I am absolutely dumbfounded that this position is expected to be taken seriously by anyone, let alone JBL.
Regards
Don McRitchie
Hello Don
Well said
Rob
I didn't mean to make anyone mad. To me an ultimate speaker can do low bass without help. I don't expect JBL to change statagy based on what I think. I have bought brand new JBL speakers over the last 2 years. I'm not old enough to have JBL nostalgia, so the product has to stand up for itself. I disagree with you on the objective part being ultimate but I'm not the target audience.
JBL has made an excellent speaker for the asian market.
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