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Thread: EVEREST DD66000

  1. #181
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJC
    That last sentence pretty much sez it all. The DD66000 is the mother of ALL speakers, TOP of the line, everthing else, from ANY speaker company is somewhere below and less than the new Everest.
    I'm pretty sure they would be my favorite speakers, but the "these are not enough money, do you have anything more expensive" crowd read or listen to people who read magazines that say imaging is the end all and do all of high end speakers.

    The real question for them, of course, is..."will Francois approve? Does it go with the love seat?" If Everests don't go with the furniture, get new furniture. They come in four finishes, I hope that helps with these morons. I want lots of clueless Americans to buy them so they will be available used years from now, for my kids.

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  2. #182
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    There may never be a perfect speaker. It has always seemd to me that there was some spl threshold one had to exceed or large jbl systems sounded sort of like transistor radios, I've guessed it had to do with overcoming the mass of the varying moving componants, but especially the systems with horns and cones can be extreemly difficult to make sound right at very low levels. How often have you seen the sound way up with everybody listening in another room. (the kitchen?) some of that may have to do with the space it takes for some waves to develop. (My level of education doesn't really quallify me to say for sure.) You can be in someones sound room and they will demo some tiny speaker and it will sound beautiful you can hear all kind's of detail but no dynamic range. Without dynamic range you will never mistake memorex for live. You can't fault jbl for chasing the dollar. Back when there was an Avery Fisher and a Saul Marantz or at least soon after there was a Morse Electrophonic who laughed at all of the truth in advertising and conventional means of measurment and they could because while what they sold was junk they sold more of that junk than the entire rest of the industry put together. When JBL became huge and discovered that what they could charge was in no way controled by what they put into the boxes, and besides most of the "quality" in those drivers didn't contribute to sound "quality" they contributed to efficiency, not real important to a lot of people now that you could buy larger than a 5 watt amplifier (Paul Klipsh was still traveling the country saying "what the world really needs is a really good 5 watt amplifier" but by now he was 80 and deaf.) JBL could cheaply build speakers that sounded good but if you lived on 32 acres your neighbor wasn't goiung to come threaten you if you didn't turn your music down and you weren't going to pass them on to your grandchildren. JBL used to have a brochure to help sell against sansui and the lot who werte putting as many as 7 or more drivers in a cabinet and it basicly said would you rather have one really good swiss watch or or several it refered to some nonrevered line can't remember if it was timex or mickey or if they managed to keep it generic. Where I fault JBL is they could have done this mass market thing and still kept a high line or kept the service or kept someome in Pro who catered to audiophiles (has that become a bad word? I was always just a bit too tweeky to be one) When I sold JBL they officially had a 5 year warranty (I think it may have been longer at one time) but I never saw anybody get charged for a repair who hadn't damaged the speaker. I did see them charge a guy something once for some D130's that had just gond "dead" (not burnt out) they said the suspensions were worn out from not being properly loaded. but usualy the speakers would come back free with a note to the effect that JBL speakers do not wear out. What could that have cost them compared to the image it got them. Still Common Hardon had them a long time before they turned them into "just another speaker" It used to be when a potential customer said "what's so special about JBL. You would say. Here Look at this. There literature used to say a JBL speaker will never have a ceramic magnet. When people would ask how many watts how come it doesn't say how many watts we would say (D series) "don't worry about it. If you are in the room with it you won't blow it up." And they had a top end, I got rid of my revox, a lot of people were putting there lp's (ask your parents) on tape to preserve but unless I ran the revox at 15 the hiss made it obvious it was tape and not disk. I read on here about someone bitching about JBL not taking care of a woofer "not gotten through proper channels" Sure jbl was right but unles it was a salvage dump wat could it have cost them compared to thr image. The old JBL would have taken care of it although they were a bit nasty about tracking down the dealer who had transhipped them, unless it was a deller they couldn,t afford to mess with. They were good about giving permission to discount a demo or scratched unit or such, this was after fair trade was no longer legal. you could sell your enventory for what you wanted but they didn'y have to sell you any more. Sorry about the soapbox. I knew JBL went ceramic years ago. I knew that you could buy junk with their name on it. (in fact I've been trying to figure where 033 and 066 tweeters fit in this mess. But I just found out about the d130 being discontinued. Yeh I've been under a rock. Anybody know what frames convert to what speaker. Maybe if I buy land in nevada I can build a low frequency horn next door and power it with this woofer with the 375 magnet. (I'm probably kidding) Anybody know much about old ampex theatre systems?

  3. #183
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Thom, I can't argue with your recollection of history. It seems accurate. I can tell you that my half horn (other half would be cones) 4345's sound equally great at low volumes. I think tube amps help there, as they are known for clarity at low output. Maybe it is just this particular design of speaker, I don't know. All I know is I can turn them way down and they are still sweet.

    One good thing about ferrite, it never needs a remag. JBL seems to do a good job of engineering around the weaknesses. Alnico must be really expensive these days.

    For what it is worth, I think high efficiency is a very good thing and usually involves superior engineering and manufacture as compared to less efficient designs. I imagine that is one reason why Jim Lansing pioneered flat vc winding and miniscule gaps. With tube amps at least, lower power designs sound better than larger amps, all else being equal. I also remember that in the past, solid state amps needed to be at mid level at least to produce good sound. Maybe that drove the perception that lower efficiency in speakers was OK or even desirable.

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47
    The newer cars are certainly more capable, but no sane person would rather own a 2005 Ferarri over an early sixties GTO.
    You are kidding right? Thats just weird, man. Is this a generation gap or something? Thats like saying most people would take cancer over a common cold.

  5. #185
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Way Off Topic, Sorry

    Sorry, Shane, that would be a Ferrari GTO. I must have dropped my antecedent right there on the floor. There must be something really special and fun about the GTO Ferrari. I remember when the price of a used one hit twelve million dollars for a while. Being one of the sexiest Italian cars ever doesn't hurt either.

    The late Innes Ireland used to kick himself over having turned down three GTO's for something like $1500 each. Last year's racing cars, and he was a driver for Enzo. He said it seemed like money not well spent at the time.

    Pure racing cars have a strong appeal to the faithful. My #1 ride of all time would be a Porsche 917. I'd rather have it than an F-86. Impossible on the street, but I can dream.

    Addendum: Watch the Steve McQueen movie Le Mans and you will become a fan of the 917 too. Caution on the shunt (wreck) scene. It was a real accident. A real driver lost a real leg in that crash. The Ferrari 512's aren't bad either.

    Here is the Ferrari GTO, and the Gulf Porsche 917 (just like in the movie)


    Clark in Peoria
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    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
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  6. #186
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    I thought you meant a Pontiac.

    So I hear JBL has a new speaker.

  7. #187
    Member sfellini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47
    The Ferarri 512's arent bad either.
    Alas, they were not good enough .

    Steve (tifoso from way back).

  8. #188
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfellini
    Alas, they were not good enough .

    Steve (tifoso from way back).
    Don't feel bad. The 917 became, after a troubled and deadly genesis, the one racing car in history that nothing, I mean nothing, could beat. Ferrari has a much headier and heavier mystique than any other brand will ever muster. Come on, it's Italian! That would be the ultimate compliment!


    The real question is, what looks cooler, a 512LM or a D66000? A tie, says I. Hats off to Dan Ashcraft and whoever else crafted the look.

    Clark

    You really don't want to see this in your rear window (but the Everest strikes me like this):
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    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  9. #189
    JonathanKeehn
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    How about the Ferrari FXX vs the D66000? Both are extreme examples of engineering excellence.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #190
    MJC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thom
    (in fact I've been trying to figure where 033 and 066 tweeters fit in this mess
    The 066 fit perfectly in the L212 and 4313, thank you very much.
    And Please, the next time you want to right a long post try using more than one paragraph. Makes it easier to read.

    And for the last few posters, since when did this thread become a car thread?

  11. #191
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    What a weird thread... I have been out of town for a few days and just got back to see this...

    I can't help but think that many of the posters that are posting what seem to be negative comments about JBL for doing this or that, or for not doing something are posting here because they are disappointed that they can't afford a $60K speaker system...

    Look guys, these are the best JBLs that have ever been built for domestic use... period. They may or may not be what you would want in your home... personal taste, performance requirements, and size all come into play here... but from an objective perspective and the subjective perspective of the design team... they are the best.... PERIOD!

    They are not Focal's anniversary speakers, they are not Wilson Audio's anniversary speakers, they are not the Klipsch anniversary speakers... these are JBLs. I personally can not begin to afford them, and I am OK with that... I can't afford a Ferrari BB512 Berlinetta Boxer either, but I can appreciate them both.

    I really can't understand why so many have taken it upon themselves to dump on JBL and these speakers that are meant to be a celebration. Early on I said that they weren't a real product... what I meant by that was that they were not something that would be produced in any quantity... I didn't meant it in a disparaging way... the Paragon was also so expensive and large in it's day that it wasn't made in any large numbers either... at least not during any particular year... but they made them for decades. I doubt that the JBL of today will build the DD66000 for decades, but the fact that they built them at all is reason to celebrate.

    Scotty... I said that you would probably not like the new 476Be drivers... I said that because you are so fond of the particular characteristics of the 2441s... that is fine. You should just continue to enjoy the 2441s... hopefully JBL will continue to support these legacy drivers. Personally I really like the 2441s too, but I prefer the TAD 4001s and TAD 4003s. I would assume that I would also like the 476Bes... it is quite possible that I would like the 476Bes even more than the relatively affordable $2,700ea. TD-4003

    Jack... it seems you have decided to dislike this speaker without giving it a listen.... I am guessing that through your experience you have developed a set of rules that you believe to be necessary to achieve the ideal sound. You really focus on the driver symmetry, driver alignment, and the diffraction caused by sharp edges. Well your speakers have driver symmetry and no sharp edges and that's fine... you have obviously spent a great deal of time perfecting them for your needs and I expect they are quite good as well, but I am also sure that like any speaker they won't satisfy every listener... there are so many loudspeakers out there because there are so many listeners that appreciate different flavors.

    You also focused on deep bass... and in the case of the DD66000, it's inherent lack of deep bass without some coaxing. For many listeners it isn't of paramount concern. For me a very uncolored sound is paramount, followed by dynamics, and imaging. As has been mentioned, there is no perfect speaker, but some get closer than others. I have heard speakers from every design school that have been remarkably good. I have heard speakers that I was certain would sound terrible based on my own self imposed rules and have been shown that I was wrong. The bottom line is there is no substitute for a thorough audition.


    Widget

  12. #192
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    It is interesting but people are people and its not the first time PR , not the product has back fired on the Brand in a global market. The message for the target audience does not always win the hearts and minds of brand followers in other markets.

    Despite whether publisizing the Everest release in Japan on the Lansing Forums was meant to raise the profile of the Lansing Heritage Site or not, its become a PR disaster here.

    Unfortunately the launch and the communications has alienated to some extent the true blue Lansing Veterans and does little to relate what the product should really mean to them. *

    There is no association and they feel forgotten and left out and it was not what they expected.*

    There was no pre-positioning communications of the release to the forum audience. Hopefully JBL will demonstrate more empathy as time marches on.



    *The Everest is in many ways the modern equivalent of the JBL 4435 with a twist to the past, a favourite among long time followers of the Lansing Heritage Forums. But the Everest improves on the 4435, the proven dual 15 inch drivers from the 9800 are used in tandem like the 4435. The Everest also has massive new 4 inch compression driver featuring the latest advances in transducer engineering from JBL with a new horn which is regarded as the best ever from JBL. The design is completed with a purpose built UHF transducer to meet the challenge of tomorrows digital recordings. A new standard from JBL with an old but familiar face.

  13. #193
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJC
    The DD66000 is the mother of ALL speakers, TOP of the line, everthing else, from ANY speaker company is somewhere below and less than the new Everest.
    How do you know that? Have you heard them?:dont-know

  14. #194
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    What a weird thread... I have been out of town for a few days and just got back to see this...

    I can't help but think that many of the posters that are posting what seem to be negative comments about JBL for doing this or that, or for not doing something are posting here because they are disappointed that they can't afford a $60K speaker system...
    Hi Widget. I don't see it negative. What I see is that many are disappointed that JBL did not show the DD66000 in the US first. I don't see that as a problem. How many times has JBL introduced a top of the line speaker in Europe? I wont even speak of how many times in my part of the world. There are also disappointment that the speaker is made for the far east. This is partly confirmed by Greg Timbers in his post in this thread. AND ... I believe that there are a lot of people in the US and in Europe that have the money to buy this speaker.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    Look guys, these are the best JBLs that have ever been built for domestic use... period. They may or may not be what you would want in your home... personal taste, performance requirements, and size all come into play here... but from an objective perspective and the subjective perspective of the design team... they are the best.... PERIOD!
    How the h#ll do you know that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    They are not Focal's anniversary speakers, they are not Wilson Audio's anniversary speakers, they are not the Klipsch anniversary speakers... these are JBLs. I personally can not begin to afford them, and I am OK with that... I can't afford a Ferrari BB512 Berlinetta Boxer either, but I can appreciate them both.
    Who can't .....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    I really can't understand why so many have taken it upon themselves to dump on JBL and these speakers that are meant to be a celebration. Early on I said that they weren't a real product... what I meant by that was that they were not something that would be produced in any quantity... I didn't meant it in a disparaging way... the Paragon was also so expensive and large in it's day that it wasn't made in any large numbers either... at least not during any particular year... but they made them for decades. I doubt that the JBL of today will build the DD66000 for decades, but the fact that they built them at all is reason to celebrate.
    I have been waiting to see (and hopefully hear) what JBL was putting out for the 60th anniversary. So far I cannot "oh no" or celebrate simply because I have not seen or heard them. On the pictures they look fantastic for my taste.

    As for your comments of the Paragon, it was affordable for a lot more people in the time of production. (Still is affordable on the used marked) What has happened with the hi-end prices the last 15 years is a discussion, but I believe the word "greedy" is one that can be used.

    Yes Widget, I agree with you that in that we probably wont see the Everest made in 20 years, like the Paragon was. Do you know why not?

    I do not comment on the rest of your thread because you comments is made for Scott and Jack.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJC
    And for the last few posters, since when did this thread become a car thread?
    Maybe they wanted to look at a ultimate product that is actually an ultimate product?

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