No comment at this time Zilch. Later.Originally Posted by Zilch
No comment at this time Zilch. Later.Originally Posted by Zilch
There, there, sonny, take it easy, everythings gonna be allright. Just come with me, and Ill let you play in the Klipsch room for awhile! The doctor will be right in to see you, your going to be fine.Originally Posted by Zilch
scottyj
Seriously fellows ... You have no opinion on this? Until my tomorrow... God nightOriginally Posted by scott fitlin
Other than the cheap stuff at BB and Fry's, there hasn't been an upper end JBL product line worthy of our money that you could even listen too anywhere, since the early 90's. And if I have to go to a guy like RobPatton for a demo, I'd rather go to the dentist.Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
All these manufacturers were busy courting the more affluent customer when Harman was chasing the bottom line, acquiring companies, and ignoring the more affluent upper and middle class customer. Meanwhile, the more affluent customer got tired of seeing low end speakers with a JBL logo on it, and spent elsewhere.Even in other speaker forums, most of the participants own or are going to own their new Swans, Paradigms, Sonus Fabers, or whatever. In this forum, though, most people do not own a contemporary JBL, nor have they heard one. Again, that's no sin, but it demonstrates what an unusual bunch we are.
...but when the loyal customer senses a change for the worse...they will spend elsewhere. The US auto industry has had to learn the hard way from the Japanese. Do you see any similarities here?Most people here love the old ways, and that is truly great.
Most car buyers have stuck with one brand for decades because of perceived quality, value, prestige. Look what's happened to Oldsmobile and Cadillac. Conversely...look at Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infinity. See any similarities?If I were a businessman, I wouldn't spend much time or money, or lose much sleep over whether or not DIY hobbiests and vintage gear enthusiasts liked my products. It'd be a monumental waste of time trying to satisfy such a group or really make any money off them. I'd go where the money and customers are.
The corporation will reap what it sows.
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
Originally Posted by edgewound
Damned good one, edge!! It does feel just like being there when he surfaces!
bo
"Indeed, not!!"
Hang on a minute - I heard Clinton had a different cigar style. What was it again...??Originally Posted by edgewound
bo
"Indeed, not!!"
Yeah, that was the umm, oh let me see, what was it again?Originally Posted by boputnam
Oh yeah, the Monica Lewinsky Method of smokeless smoking!
You asked for it, :dont-know
scottyj
Sshhhh!! We can't talk like that here, can we?Originally Posted by boputnam
But I must admit, it did cross my mind.
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
Mods,
Could we perhaps move the posts on marketing issues to a separate thread. While I agree that it applies to the Everest D66000, maybe it really deserves its own topic thread instead of being intermingled here.
Just a thought.
Regards,
Bart
My 4 cents worth, at this point:
1. I am very pleased to see a new statement from JBL and frankly, I'm stunned by the design, at first glance. Personally speaking, I'm thrilled everytime something like this is produced and made available, even though I'll never afford them.
2. Who cares what the JBL marketing rational is? The DD66000 is here and it exists. Just like a Ferrari Enzo, it represents a company's, - and no doubt, a group of talented, experienced folk's, view of SOTA (when was the last time you heard that term?). This isn't marketing.com, it's about using JBL stuff and getting the best out of it. Well, it is to me, anyway
3. Stop whining and start learning how to benefit from the ideas put forward, to your own benefit. I have a hunch that this is why JBL has chosen to share this info with us. It's a wonderful gesture by them, IMHO.
4. Now if we could just get cone kits of our favorites, like 2235,2242 and 2245 with the new surround technology, I'd be a happy camper...
All good points, gents, yet I feel I must put up a symbolic defense at least.
Rolf, take all the time you need my friend.
Zilch, I know I've damned the 4430 with faint praise from time to time, but it is an admirable speaker and an excellent accomplishment in two-way design. I listen to a pair everyday at work, sometimes fully juiced.
Edge, that's pretty darn funny... In some ways, though, we're too low rent here for the demo RP was looking for. :dont-know
Scott, your points are well made.
Bo, is wrong with you? No, don't tell me.
Bart, totally agree.
Now, the defense. In the consumer area, there are several fine loudspeakers from the mid '80s through the present. In fact, all my favorites come from this period, including the L250/250Ti evolution, the XPL200, the L5 and L7, and of course the PS1400/PT800. Obviously, I'm a big fan of the four-way and of the tall cabinet and of the LE14H* family.
In fact, putting the XPL200 and L7 down a rung due to the 12" woofers, I'd much rather have an LE14H* based four-way system than just about anything else.
So I will not ever accept the false argument that there were and are no excellent JBL consumer speakers during this era.
I've heard what Greg Timbers and JBL can do with a two-way and a four-way. Now here comes the DD66000 with a tabula rasa for the designer in advanced two-way (OK 2.5) design. It's an article of faith that it will be superlative, and also that when the same design goal comes for another great four-way speaker, it will spank this big boy in ways that a well-rendered, four-way, direct radiator can in the home environment.
But for now, celebrate the moment of two-way glory.
Out.
Careful....I resemble that remark.Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
I agree that JBL had some fine speakers in this era. I had a showroom and sold upper end speakers during this era....I serviced but wasn't allowed to sell JBL because Circuit City did.Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
But...the competition was fierce in this market segment and I feel that JBL quit the game rather dig in and up the ante. The bean counters did it, and took the short term, easy way out...it wasn't the engineers. The number crunchers decided to exploit the JBL Logo and loaded boxes with two dollar Audax tweeters all they could.
Hey...but some of those Audax tweeters are horn loaded....like the PT's....ooooooh.
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
Hi, Bart...Originally Posted by mech986
Interesting thought.
My grab is, marketing is SO integral to the struggle JBL has in keeping it's finest products "alive" (R&D cost, manufacturing decisions, business strategy, etc) it may need to stay here, were members can put forth their views on that, too. The DD66000 is a very important statement from JBL - JBL are standing tall on their legacy, and pushing the envelope to new limits.
As well, remarkably, this thread has input directly from JBL engineering - we don't get much of that. Other forums on pro sound, for example, are frequented by industry who provide valuable insight. Granted, this thread will wander a bit, but the fabric will be interesting...
Just my 2¢
bo
"Indeed, not!!"
Compare the pictures, it's what I've always seen!
Btw, JBL is US and not sold out?
They are in the market.(And I would like to see more JBL too.)
____________
Peter
Well, since Dome anointed us the One Hundred, I am willing to run with it. Not a very homogeneus bunch, to be sure, perhaps "homogenius" instead, and I am probably the least knowledgeable concerning nuts and bolts matters. Give me five years to study and I could probably design a fair crossover; that's where I'm at right now.
Several comments resonate with me. The old stuff/new stuff remarks seem more about preferences than absolute standards, and it does seem to come down to the meter men vs the let me judge for myself folks. Maybe there is some of the wanting to own what we couldn't financially swing in our youth thing, too, but one thing I have learned about the One Hundred is we follow our ears, not our memories. Above all, we listen. If the meter men think the ear men haven't a leg to stand on, remember this. The newer cars are certainly more capable, but no sane person would rather own a 2005 Ferarri over an early sixties GTO. And everyone knows today's Corvette waxes the Stingray in every performance category, especially handling, but the Stingray has a different feel and a different sound. Some of us are going to prefer the Stingray for reasons having nothing to do with nostalga. We will find it more enjoyable to experience here and now. Scotty finds some vintage gear much more enjoyable to hear than SOTA stuff, and you can't argue with that. Me, I'll take any JBL I've ever heard over any "polite" speaker I've ever heard. One should go where the joy is, not where magazines or readouts say to go. If they coincide, that is great. If they don't, that is great too. I personally find the 4345 to be completely in sync with my soul, and I don't have to defend that to anyone. I feel like they are something my higher functions have been searching for all my life. There is no arguing with feelings. Would I like the Everest better if I heard it? Maybe!
Mr. Timbers knows that his latest work is the best sounding ever. But don't count out the "Ferarri GTO" (insert your favorite Vintage JBL or Altec here). It may feel better to some perfectly sane listeners than the much more accurate D66000.
Which brings me to what is disturbing here. Why must preferring something over something else be taken so personally? It shouldn't. I certainly hope Mr. Timbers doesn't think our liking his previous work so much implies any putdown of his latest creations. Some of us are going to prefer some older gear to it, and that does not always imply better or worse. Some of us, having heard the (new) Everest, will begin plotting bank robberies to get it. Both are right, of course. Please also remember that Mr. Timbers designs speakers, not marketing strategy. I really, really hope such a nice man was not hurt by the contentious nature of some of our rhetoric. He has made a career of showering the audio landscape with gifts from heaven, and whether we can afford them or not is worked out by decisions we made, not decisions he made. The only reasonable reaction to what he has done for us would be enormous, everlasting thanks and gratitude.
Clark in Peoria, a better place because of Greg Timbers and JBL (the man and the company).
Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears
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