EVEREST DD66000

[boputnam]

...I take offense to Greg Timbers comment that the American consumer doesnt buy high end goods.

My grab is, there are piles of real hard sales data that support JBL's marketing decision(s). I also imagine JBL would dearly love to sell more of their high-end products here at home, but that the sales data do not yet support that as a successful marketing effort.

That said, they are pitching-up at CES with their finest...

[Guido]

Greg, thank you very much for the insight!

A note to Mr. "I hate electrolytics". The ones used in the Everest are there for a reason and you can replace them with "gold plated audiophile parts of the day" and the sound won't improve one bit.

My forum name is my real name "Guido"
I hate "gold plated audiophile parts" even more than electrolytics and this is known here.

Whenever you find the time please tell us more about your reasons for using especially these elytone caps.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think its a catch 22.

The market as a rule buys what its exposed to.

Why do you think its being launched as ground zero?

JBL as a business model needs distribution. They need coverage and dealers who are prepared to put the stuff on the floor and put it on their dealer web pages.

The thing is the sort of franchises that sell the L Studio stuff in the USA most likely are servicing a different side the the consumer market to statement stuff and the other ranges.

ie I can buy the above at Dick Smith and Myers but the more up market stuff is really a specialty dealer distribution thing like Carlton A/V or Len Wallis in Sydney.

The problem then is to sell in those ranges to these specialty dealers. Its very competitive at that level and the stakes are high. These guys already sell Wilson, Focal Utopia, and many other elite brands. Its a case of getting in there and that is more about having a consistent long term marketing plan.

Its all very well to have a % of the total market but unless you have Channel Market Share and that mean coverage in a particular market with committed dealers its unlikely unit sales will result

People do buy the stuff and they do regularly go in on a Saturday to these specialty dealers but if your not there on the floor your not in the market.

[edgewound]

But, I can tell you I go to the AES, and every time, its been the same thing. They set up static displays, and the JBL reps have attitude. How do you go to an audio show to display your wares and people cant hear the stuff?

That's a real problem. You can't sell what you can't demo. And you can't treat your customers with a bad attitude. That attitude usually comes from the top down.

And you're right Scotty...CES, AES and NAMM shows have all had reps with a distant, arrogant, uninterested, defensive, standoffish attitude....usually because they know nothing about their employers own product...and that's a training and development problem.

[Zilch]

I dont need an oscilloscope, or TEF analyzer, or CLIO, to know what sounds good.

Perhaps not.

But they'll tell you what might sound better, and why....

FWIW, I applaud JBL,s efforts, IF they had a pair of speakers in the price range I just said, that "I" loved, I would buy them.

Project Array doesn't do it for you, then?

[edgewound]

The problem then is to sell in those ranges to these specialty dealers. Its very competitive at that level and the stakes are high. These guys already sell Wilson, Focal Utopia, and many other elite brands. Its a case of getting in there and that is more about having a consistent long term marketing plan.
.

That's a great point, Ian.

I think the financial burden has been raised too high by Harman for the specialty dealer.

Custom install is one thing. But when a dealer is interested in carrying just one or a few lines that interests his clientele, he's forced to buy the whole range...then doesn't buy at all...because they don't want to just "move boxes" and lessen their reputation for high-end...so no dealer's to see the good product. Smaller companies allow a minimal buy-in to get the business, and if they have a good product, more business follows. Big companies see this as too much trouble, and too costly too keep in the database....I see it as one dealer is better than none.

[edgewound]

BINGO! You win!

Send me your address, Im sending you a Padron 1964 Anniversario Cigar, maduro wrapper. Quite possibly the BEST cigar you`ll ever smoke.

Hey!!! Cool!! Scotty!!!

What a treat!! I've been on a 1 or 2 a year kick for the past three or so years. Figure it won't do me any harm...it's fun an Magnet3 thinks it's damn sexy.

Of course, I smoke it like Bill Clinton....don't inhale.

PM on the way.

[takenodisk]

There's no appropriate words to name theese,how impressive the drivers are!!!!! ,one more dream to run after . Thanks for ths pics don.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I have not hard data but my impression is JBL distribution in the States has been inconsistant and patchy from the get go over the years with changes in management and the corporate thing.

If anything JBL is more aggressive in the car subwoofer segment..perhap they see the quick sales there. Sell 100 units of $500 car subs and you got $50K in turnover!

Its probably easier and cheap for the business to do that than sell an Everest and the margins are most likely better. So who wins, the Harman Bean Counters, and then these is the audio baby boomer ............too bad.

Sure I can buy a JBL Ipod, but can I walk in and really hear the stuff nope, no sir.

Anyone with an inheritance looking for a good system would be better served waiting for a JBL 4345 to come up on Ebay.

[Rolf]

Your right! This is a celebration, but, I take offense to Greg Timbers comment that the American consumer doesnt buy high end goods. Yes we do. They just arent buying what he says is high end.

I have the deepest respect for Mr. Timbers. As far as I know he is responsible for the speakers I use. (4343B). But to say that people in the US and in Europe don't buy equipment, in this case speakers in this price range is not true. H*ll I just spent over US$60.000 on a bloody car! (Yes, cars are expensive in Norway) There must be quite a lot of people in the US/Europe that are capable to bark up this amount of money if they WANT, and if the sound is good enough, and yes, I might be in the position to buy the new Everest, BUT I want to hear it first, and I want to hear them in my own home. I just hope that the Norwegian Importer order a set. In this price range there are a lot of other brands that sounds incredible, just as there is a lot of cars that suits me, but I would never buy a car I never have seen or tried.

[Titanium Dome]

In the single context of loudspeakers, Greg Timbers wrote that Americans want "cheap and small," and that though JBL'd like to build "real product" for the US, there aren't enough high end buyers for that product for it to be "a money making venture."

I see nothing there that means the American consumer doesn't buy high end goods. I see a statement that JBL/Harman thinks that the American consumers won't buy high end JBL product, which kinda jibes with what Scott wrote: "not what he says is high end" (if you change "he" to "JBL").

If 20% of our LH members are active, that's about 1000 people. Out of those thousand people, maybe 10% post at least once a month, so perhaps that's a 100 people. If those 100 represent the most vocal (certainly) and most active (probably) JBL enthusiasts here, how many have purchased new JBL loudspeaker product in the past couple of years? Perhaps 5–10%? What's the highest end gear that anyone's admitted to purchasing? Studio L Series, Performance Series, Project Array Series? TiK? Maybe some Pro gear like LSRs?

The rest are buying vintage products, parts for vintage products, and DIY parts. That's nice, but it also illustrates Greg's statement. We are not buying high end product. It's not a sin, but it is a rational reason for his statement.

In some other forums I visit, like edmunds.com for example, people usually own what they're talking about. Same for computer platforms, game consoles, projectors, etc. For example, most of the people in a Chrysler's TC by Maserati forum actually own a TC. Most of the people in an X-Box forum own X-Boxes.

Even in other speaker forums, most of the participants own or are going to own their new Swans, Paradigms, Sonus Fabers, or whatever. In this forum, though, most people do not own a contemporary JBL, nor have they heard one. Again, that's no sin, but it demonstrates what an unusual bunch we are.

The few of us who advocate for current product can generate some enthusiastic threads, and some of us have been called "thread whores" for posting about "nonheritage" (read: contemporary) product lines. ("Thread whore" was a high point of recognition for me, and it was done in fun, I think. )

Most people here love the old ways, and that is truly great. This is after all Lansing Heritage. I'd think JBL appreciates the recognition, but it also knows it doesn't make any money to have enthusaists constantly trading in old gear and never buying any of the new. And really, the parts and accessories part of the business is a PITA, as anyone who's ever handled old parts inventory can tell you.

If I were a businessman, I wouldn't spend much time or money, or lose much sleep over whether or not DIY hobbiests and vintage gear enthusiasts liked my products. It'd be a monumental waste of time trying to satisfy such a group or really make any money off them. I'd go where the money and customers are.

[Don McRitchie]

Hello Don

Would you have any pictures of the components?? Looking at what you have posted they had the compression driver in pieces including the phase plug, diaphram, the whole magilla. Also with the networks you can see the two LF networks and they appear to be running a mix of NPE and PP. Do you have any close ups on the networks?? I would like to get a closer look if you have them.

Thanks Greg for the post!!

Rob

Because of the people lined up at the parts table, I was only able to get the following oblique shots.

Don

[Robh3606]

Hello Don

Great!! Thanks for posting what you have.

Regards Rob

[Rolf]

If 20% of our LH members are active, that's about 1000 people. Out of those thousand people, maybe 10% post at least once a month, so perhaps that's a 100 people. If those 100 represent the most vocal (certainly) and most active (probably) JBL enthusiasts here, how many have purchased new JBL loudspeaker product in the past couple of years? Perhaps 5–10%? What's the highest end gear that anyone's admitted to purchasing? Studio L Series, Performance Series, Project Array Series? TiK? Maybe some Pro gear like LSRs?

Hi TD.

In the following I mean "hi-end" JBL's.

Have you ever wondered why so few have bought new JBL's in the past 20 years, and why even fewer buy new JBL's now? I believe I know why, and that is an easy answer. They just don't sound good enough compared to other brands, and there is not enough vintage to get the hands on, at least not here in my area.

All the talk of the Arrays ... I think they stink ... in their price range there are so many other brands that sounds so much better,

In my opinion the curve has gone down from about 1985 for JBL, and yes, that include the original Everest, and studio monitors at that time. The last thing JBL made that was really good was the 4343, 4350, and maybe the 4345, but I have never heard the 4345.

That is what people (and I) want ... that sound. Not the Japanese sound with lack of bottom and "screaming" heights.

Bare with me ... at the moment my feelings are high ...

[Zilch]

Oh NO!!

4430s SUCK?

[I am RUINED!!! ]