Are these speakers blown?

[gsb001]

B&W
Matrix 802 Series 2
Bass 8" LF
BC 2003
ZZ 4316

Hi,
I'm new to this pair of speakers and when I took the drivers out, I noticed the spider and voice coil / cardboard tube were not glued together. I thought all speaker designs shared the same spider glued to cone assembly.

Please review the attached pictures and let me know if tube is designed to slide through the spider. All four are not attached. Seems strange to me. I hope not.

Thank you
SB

[Don C]

The tube is supposed to be glued to the spider.

[Wagner]

It is strange?
That the glue would let go on so many at once?!?
On ancient AR woofers (we're talking drivers 40+ years old) and a few others, glue out gassing and release of the spider from the frame is fairly common, but on B&W? Never seen it happen on anything remotely "contemporary" or "modern" from B&W
What year are the 802s? And what do the voice coils measure? (DCR wise)
B&W might even be interested in seeing those depending on how recently they were manufactured
Early 2000s? (I am not certain; they've made some incarnation of the "802" since the late '70s)
If yours are that old that might explain the glue/adhesive releasing?
I'd contact B&W

[gibber]

Hi,
I'm new to this pair of speakers and when I took the drivers out, I noticed the spider and voice coil / cardboard tube were not glued together. I thought all speaker designs shared the same spider glued to cone assembly.

The way you ask it -- are you just wondering why cone/spider/tube are not joined with glue in one location?

If so, well, it is good practice to join all these three in one single location. But it is not always done that way.
If not, like DonC said, all should be glued firmly in place, so if you push the cone from the front towards the magnet, the "tube" (actually the coil former) should not slide through the spider, but the centre of the spider should be pushed down as well.

Ralph

[gasfan]

Looks like an anomaly that got by qc. Clean with no residue. Looks like it was never glued.

[Wagner]

Looks like an anomaly that got by qc. Clean with no residue. Looks like it was never glued.

Did they play? Properly?
What was the reason for pulling them all?
Can't you manipulate them manually to confirm (are we only going on appearance?)
If they were never glued from the start I can't imagine they weren't returned or manged to stay in service all these years?
Unless the original owner played everything VERY VERY softly

[gibber]

Did they play? Properly?
If they were never glued from the start I can't imagine they weren't returned or manged to stay in service all these years?
Unless the original owner played everything VERY VERY softly

These are Series2 (Series80 in some countries), so they don't have a reflex port of Series3, if my memory serves my right. The compliance of the cab might be enough to guide them safely if the spider centers the coil former well. Would expect at least a little bit of noise from the sliding of coil through spider though ...

[Wagner]

These are Series2 (Series80 in some countries), so they don't have a reflex port of Series3, if my memory serves my right. The compliance of the cab might be enough to guide them safely if the spider centers the coil former well. Would expect at least a little bit of noise from the sliding of coil through spider though ...

Top compliance does as much or more for putting the VC in the right place than does the spider (as for DEPTH)
That assuming the spider is healthy
In his photo the spider APPEARS flat
Need a hard confirmation from the OP that the VC former is in fact sliding through the spider loosely or is the OP going on appearance alone (the exposed and visible section of the former)
It is very strange that four drivers would all fail in an identical fashion with no visible evidence (at least not from these pictures anyway) of any physical damage
And as I wrote, I find it difficult to believe that it has gone unnoticed aurally for all this time
There would have/should have been some serious clicking and clacking going on at any sort of SPLs at all

[audiomagnate]

That happens to ALL old B&W woofers eventually. It happens faster in drier climates. The glue just dries out and fails. The series 2 and series 80 are not the same BTW, the series 80's are the first generation, the series 2 the second. If the spiders aren't all brittle and failing themselves, just re-glue them.

[Wagner]

That happens to ALL old B&W woofers eventually. It happens faster in drier climates. The glue just dries out and fails. The series 2 and series 80 are not the same BTW, the series 80's are the first generation, the series 2 the second. If the spiders aren't all brittle and failing themselves, just re-glue them.

Thank you for the knowledge! Good to know!
Sincerely
I have owned B&W several times over the years and never knew or heard that.
What the heck were they using for adhesive? Mucilage?

[gsb001]

These are Matrix 802 Series 2 1989.

I'm going to get a quote to glue them back together. Both mid's are the same way too.

Reply from factory:
SB

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bowers & Wilkins Support <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 9:40 AM
Subject: 8" LF Loudspeaker Spider / VC assembly [Incident: 160105-000141]
To: [email protected]

Thank you for your recent support question, below you will find our response and your original communication. Ken B. (01/06/2016 10:40 AM) Good morning Steve, Thank you for your email regarding the Bowers & Wilkins 802 S2 S2 Bass Drivers The spider-voicecoil detachment is not by design. It appears that the adhesive on the spider/voicecoil has deteriorated over time. If the spider itself is still level you could try to re-adhere the speaker cone to the spider. The procedure would require that you weigh down the speaker cone evenly from the top so that the voice meets up with bottom edge of the speaker cone. You can then layer on a bead of Gel-type Super Glue and allow it to set then cure properly. Alternatively you could get in touch with a re-coning facility in order to have them repair the speakers. Here is a list of facilities we recommend: 1. THE SPEAKER EXCHANGE – FLORIDA – 1-800-849-6972 http://reconingspeakers.com/ 2. DFW SPEAKER REPAIR – TX – 817-230-4569 http://www.dfwspeakerrepair.com/ 3. REGNAR- New York- 631-289-6559 http://www.regnar.com/ 4. SPEAKER REPAIR- Colorado- 303-778-1617 http://www.speakerrepairofcolorado.com/ 5. MILLER SOUND- Pennsylvania- 215-412-7700 (ask for Bill) http://www.millersound.net/contact.htm 6. FREEMAN TUELL SPEAKER- Texas- 214-324-1132 http://freemantuell.com/ 7. A Brown Soun- San Rafael, California- 415-479-2124 http://www.abrown.com/ I hope this helps. Best Regards, Ken B. Steve Barnes (01/05/2016 06:54 PM) Hi, B&W Bass Unit REF No. BC2003 ZZ 4316 From Matrix 802 Series 2. Can you please review the picture of spider and voice coil cardboard throat? They are not connected, is that the normal design / assembly? All four are the same. I thought these two parts of speaker assemblies are always connected.

[Wagner]

Highly recommended, highly
You will get a quicker response if you call him versus email
His work is is impeccable

5. MILLER SOUND- Pennsylvania- 215-412-7700 (ask for Bill) http://www.millersound.net/contact.htm

[gsb001]

Sold them as is on Craigslist last weekend, $400 for the pair.
I have a renewed appreciation for JBL design and build quality.
SB

[martin2395]

That happens to ALL old B&W woofers eventually. It happens faster in drier climates. The glue just dries out and fails. The series 2 and series 80 are not the same BTW, the series 80's are the first generation, the series 2 the second. If the spiders aren't all brittle and failing themselves, just re-glue them.

The S80 and S2 are very different, please don't confuse these two with each other. The whole 802 series started with the S80, then came the Matrix.
Different cabs, tweeters, woofers and a B-R cabinet compared to closed acoustic suspension of the S80.