Horn Dampening--811B

[mbask]

I think one would find that if one removes the horn from the enclosure and flicks the bell with a finger or screw driver....whatever...one will find that the ring is at about 1KHz when compared to a sine wave from a sweep generator.

An EQ with enough applied cut at 4KHz will, as paraphrasing Mr. Widget..."screw things up". You'll simply take out too much music.

I'm getting 3.6KHz horn fastened to the cabinet.
and if you listen to "Rush: Moving Pictures" 4k @ -6 seems to do it

[Mr. Widget]

Widget.. does "cleaning" mean that dirt goes to another planet?
Your analogy seems at odds with your apparent technical command.

Years ago for a summer job I had the opportunity to paint student rental housing... I was not paid to clean the cobwebs and pizza etc., just slapped the paint over it... the idea was that was good enough for the tenants.

The point is that bailing wire, duct tape, and chewing gum may get you home, but it isn't the same as fixing the problem. And then, I mentioned the unintended consequences of using the EQ as a Band-Aid...

...or did I miss something blindingly obvious? My wife complains that I can never find anything in the refrigerator.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

...and if you listen to "Rush: Moving Pictures" 4k @ -6 seems to do it

Oh! I was thinking you were using these things for playing music... go ahead and EQ away... and tame that annoying singer too while your at it!


Widget

[Storm]

What are you talking about?

RUSH IS THE BEST DAMN BAND AROUND!

What do you listen to - pixie ballerina crap?

[mbask]

Oh! I was thinking you were using these things for playing music... go ahead and EQ away... and tame that annoying singer too while your at it!


Widget

He's also the Bass player, and keyboardist.

[Mr. Widget]

What are you talking about?

RUSH IS THE BEST DAMN BAND AROUND!

What do you listen to - pixie ballerina crap?

Thank God there are lesser bands...

BTW: I couldn't find anything by the Pixie Ballerinas.


Widget

[Storm]

I was only poking fun. Do you know how to laugh?

Try it sometime....

[Steve Schell]

One way to damp an aluminum horn is to place several ziplock bags full of sand on top of it. This is fairly effective while making no change to the horn. Sandbags could be lashed to both top and bottom if needed, and behind the lips in front.

I have had great luck in damping aluminum turntable platters with a loaded vinyl sheet called Black Hole. It is available from Speaker City here:

http://speakercity.com/Merchant2/mer...y_Code=damping

Although they refer to it as a dampening material, thankfully no moisture is involved :^). The self adhesive on this stuff is very aggressive, so I doubt if it could be pulled loose from the horn without lifting some paint.

[Tom Brennan]

I've damped 511 horns very nicely by pressing rolls of non-hardening modeling clay into the "lips", both top and bottom. I presume the same would work with 811s.

Cutting the vane welds and filling the kerfs with rubber also damps the horn, late model 511s came like that from the plant.

Note that the bolting of the horn to the baffle also damps it.

In any event I wonder if the driver produces enough energy to excite ringing or if we just imagine we can hear it, I suspect there's a big difference between striking the horn with a metal tool and running sound through it.

I now listen to a set of Heathkit AS-21s (9844s in furniture cabinets) and I decided to just leave the damned things alone and listen to them, no mods or tweaking. And I enjoy them very much.

[Mr. Widget]

I now listen to a set of Heathkit AS-21s (9844s in furniture cabinets) and I decided to just leave the damned things alone and listen to them, no mods or tweaking. And I enjoy them very much.

That is probably the best advice I have seen on this forum in a very long time!


Widget

[Storm]

Could it be just like all other tweeters and mids...that the engineers intended for the "ring" to be there. They were artists in their own right, so why wouldn't they want that "ring" to be evident?

Horns are in a league all their own, they can play by their own rules!

[Gary L]

This has all come around and back to my original statement.
I don't hear any ringing at all from my horns that are bolted fast to the baffle. I just have some time to play around and an extra set of horns so I thought I would play.

One thing we have touched on and it does puzzle me. 511 and 811 horns have been around a long time and I would think if ALTEC thought there was a problem with ringing they would have addressed it. Could it be we are just armchair quarterbacking here?

For you Storm. I don't think you are going to be happy until you answer the 846 Vs 19 question with your own ears. Go find some 19s to listen to so you have the info in your head. I do like them better then 846s but thats my opinion. You need your own opinion on them.
To take a line from a song " Love the one your with "!
If you hear some 19s and like them better then I guess a divorce is in the making. There is not a thing wrong with 846s, I just think 19s sound a little nicer but you need to decide this for yourself.
I play all my music flat and with tone controls defeated, but again, thats my preference. NO ONE HERE CAN TELL ME HOW MY EARS HEAR!!!!!

Gary

[Zilch]

Could it be just like all other tweeters and mids...that the engineers intended for the "ring" to be there. They were artists in their own right, so why wouldn't they want that "ring" to be evident?

Take yer meds, Storm.

It's ignorant prattle you're posting here....

[Storm]

Yer? - what are ya from tha sauth (south)? ... even better, Berkley CA!



Come'on Zilch - why do you have to chime in with your rude comments like that?

For your information, I am not babbling meaninglessly. I am only making a valid point that just like artists, these engineers could have purposely incorporated the "ring" into the horn.

I know, lets use your time machine and go back and ask them!



Leave everyone alone, please. Thank you.



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I agree, we are over analyzing the horns. Just like any sports commentator over analyzes any great athlete.

We need to all just sit back and enjoy what we have and be grateful.

Gary - your'e right, if there was a "ringing" problem, I am sure Altec would have fixed it right away. And, I am listening to my 846's right now and I think we make ourselves hear what we want to hear. When I take the ringing out of my mind, I do not hear it.

Like I said before, I think the problem exists to those who want to make it exist and for those who listen to high pitched music like opera, classical, and jazz.

-----------------

[Zilch]

Come'on Zilch - why do you have to chime in with your rude comments like that?

Because the underlying premise of this site is information, not fiction, and when you post a load of poo that stinks the place up, I'm gonna call you on it.

And you, with your avowed contempt for the science and technology of loudspeaker design, are certainly in NO position to be speculating as to the intent of the engineers accomplishing it.

There is a vast literature available for your perusal on the evolution of the art. Unfortunately, it largely comprises, uhmmm, "boring and stupid" graphs apparently well beyond your comprehension.

Ignorance is lack of knowledge. Stupidity is denial of reality in the presence of knowledge and wisdom.

Allow me therefore to correct my earlier assertion:

It's STUPID prattle you're posting, is what....