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Thread: 4343s improve with age

  1. #16
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    Hi Zilch. I have read the threads, and there is nothing there that can make me change my mind. Why? Because all the technical measure instruments in the wold is nothing compared to the ears. Myself, and a lot of other ears can hear the difference from a new/re-coned speaker compared to a system used for some time.

    Use your ears and make the test next time you buy a new transducer or re cone one. Listen to the new one and then let it work some hours (at least 50+ hours) and then listen to it again (with the same music).

    Then ... wow ...

    But... of course ... if you don't hear any difference ... two reasons: one: you don't want to ... two: the rest of your gear is not up to it ... and one reason maybe the cables, witch you probably don't believe make a difference either.

    Your friend
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

  2. #17
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf
    ... and one reason maybe the cables, witch you probably don't believe make a difference either.
    ME? Purveyor of the Zilch Wonder Cable?

    [I don't use 'em on woofs, tho.... ]
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  3. #18
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    Talking so much fun

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    I doubt any studio waits to use its newest monitors.

    As far a measurable differences are concerned, it's all over in a matter of minutes. There's a thread on that here recently.

    On the other hand, it's alleged to take 20 to 40 years of use for a fine guitar to acquire its fully resonant tone....
    Prior to my moving to CA in 1996, Gravity, Audio Bay, and Studio One back in the Great Lakes would customarily "condition" monitors for a week or two before recording off them. Now they're all Genelec it seems, so who knows/cares? They've all added ProTools in the last decade, so it's not all backwards movement.

    While the comment on it all being "over in a matter of minutes" is verifiably true, if it were absolutely true, nothing would ever wear out. Yet we know things do wear out and the performance between the beginning and the end will change.

    Since I do not intend to do a longitudinal study on the miniscule changes as components wear and flex, I'm just going to be happy living with the belief that I like the sound better today than a month ago, and much better than six months ago.
    In.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    ME? Purveyor of the Zilch Wonder Cable?

    [I don't use 'em on woofs, tho.... ]
    Gosh I hate to be contrary to the miracle man himself, but the proper name is Zilch Miracle Cable, as evidenced here:

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...26&postcount=6

    and here:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...&postcount=563

    The historical record is clear.
    In.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Actually,

    I think Rolf posts are more akin his own experiences than merely re posting links of what someone else thinks on the day.

    In my own experience breakin while percieved as being bass related has more to do with the upper harmonics. Besides, the effects of variations on TL parameters tend to cancel themselves out, and in the case of a 2245 the VAS is enormous compared to the drives compliance and the 2235 at 16.2 cu ft is also very high. I doubt then that audible changes may be heard are due to the compliance on bass tuning.

    The compliance however functions to perform other important duties such as asborb and cancel the sound wave reflection through the cone at much higher frequencies.

    Yes, all cone drivers transmit sound through the cone assembly.

    Regardless of the spider or compliance flexure the whole cone assembly is a a mechanical device that will flex and vibrate at particular wavelengths.

    The manner in which it does that may vary after initial manufacture once in use. The cone is more likely to settle with along term flex/stiffness properties after an inital use and that stiffness/flex properties of the cone at manufacture may well be specifically determined to allow for breakin.

    The performance of the surround in absorbing the sound waves transmitted through the cone and any variation on its mechanical properties are far more likely to effect the drivers output at higher frequencies as mention above.

    Therefore if you can detect any variations this may be what is happening.

  6. #21
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
    Gosh I hate to be contrary to the miracle man himself, but the proper name is Zilch Miracle Cable, as evidenced here:
    The historical record is clear.
    Geez, it'd sure help if I knew my own product line better, wouldn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
    While the comment on it all being "over in a matter of minutes" is verifiably true, if it were absolutely true, nothing would ever wear out. Yet we know things do wear out and the performance between the beginning and the end will change.
    Well it becomes somewhat of a semantic question, then, doesn't it: "Are they wearing in or wearing out?"

    Mr. Widget pointed that out in one of the earlier posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Actually,

    I think Rolf posts are more akin his own experiences than merely re posting links of what someone else thinks on the day.
    Thank you, Ian for expanding upon what I earlier observed there:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    My understanding is that it is required for the new materials to establish their flexural "seat," and while the process does continue, it's asymptotic.

    Presumably, both spiders and surrounds are involved at low frequencies, but it's easily envisaged that preferred flexural patterns would also develop within the cone and dust dome at higher frequencies.

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