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Thread: Everest speakers needing Sub or DSP = Poor Design

  1. #1
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    Everest speakers needing Sub or DSP = Poor Design

    I like JBL, but I can't understand the lack of LF range in their top tier speakers like Everest ect, and needing to degrade the signal with DSP is beyond comprehension. Quality source components and amplifiers should and do deliver music as intended. There are so many loudspeakers in the range of the Everest price range that do not deliver an incomplete sound, my Magico's cost a bit more, but have full range for all types of music. Very good components like Constellation amps are vital of course, but the use of DSP for anything above basic systems is a sin. My Naim/S4700 setup in my guitar room sounds good now it's opened up, and my other JBL monitor collection works well with tubes and NO DSP! I like hearing the master tapes as they were recorded. Just a thought........

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    Get educated.

    Just a thought........

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    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Given the success of the model, and having heard the E2 in several settings, I think the thread title is -way- out of line.

    The content itself is opinion, and there's nothing wrong with not liking something, but just because a company
    specifically designed something you -wish- was something else, doesn't make it a poor design.

    The banter about adding DSP is to tweak the design in a certain direction. No one -has- to do that.

    wow.

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    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    If you refer to the Q5--
    --it's a four-way system
    --the woofers are virtually subwoofers
    --it's an 87dB system

    I haven't heard them; they are probably marvelous speakers. However, it seems obvious to me a different set of compromises has been settled upon.

    Personally, I think E2's and a subwoofer would be a much better choice.
    "Audio is filled with dangerous amateurs." --- Tim de Paravicini

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    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    The 2014 Z28 a Camaro has the power to pull a trailer, and the brakes to stop one. It costs more than a Duramax powered truck, but has nowhere to put a hitch!?! WTF?!?

    Yup, poorly designed.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    The 2014 Z28 a Camaro has the power to pull a trailer, and the brakes to stop one. It costs more than a Duramax powered truck, but has nowhere to put a hitch!?! WTF?!?

    Yup, poorly designed.

    Barry.



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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieSteve View Post
    I like JBL, but I can't understand the lack of LF range in their top tier speakers like Everest ect, and needing to degrade the signal with DSP is beyond comprehension.
    A lot of people couldn't wrap their head around buying a $30K pair of Magico Minis that had no low bass and are limited in their acoustic output... not every speaker is for every customer.

    For years the Quad electrostats were among the best speakers available and yet had no bass or highs. The designers and the buyers choose the compromises they want to live with.


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    Same old Ratbags hurling abuse!

    Throw an idea in the mix, and insults abound. JBL love disciples like you guys, blinded by passion regardless of science. Original recordings are not really meant to be reworked by EQ or DSP, some component and speaker makers do enough of that later. Not one review I have read state Everest speakers have enough bottom end for their price, especially full range orchestral music. I express my opinion here and get hammered by some people who are too immature to discuss ideas. I notice by some thread photos that some people have poorly designed listening rooms and NO room treatments! That is acoustics 101, even on a budget. With a background like JBL's, and their facilities it seems to me to be a shame they have left the audiophile approach and become far too corporate. JBL really should be making USA products of such a massive standard everyone else follows them, it's not a nice thought but either Mr Timbers and his team buy out the speaker division or new designers are employed - not nice to say I know, just a thought. I now bunker down and wait for the missiles!

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    Flat Earth is dead, move on.

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    Same old Ratbags hurling abuse!

    Quote Originally Posted by AussieSteve View Post
    I now bunker down and wait for the missiles!
    I think everyone knew you were trolling right out of the gate.

    And there is absolutely nothing wrong with responding to a good old trolling with a suggestion to get educated.

  11. #11
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Hi Steve;

    I don't see where you threw an idea into any mix, rather made a statement masquerading as fact to start a thread.

    You will get no argument from me on terrible rooms, I have one too.

    To the point, no speaker system will EVER satisfy the majority, period.

    Anyone who buys anything as expensive as a pair of DD's without really having an idea of what they sound like and being reasonably sure they like them is a fool unless they just plain want them to have them.

    Like the car, the JBL has absolutely no control of where and how it will be used, there are way to many variables to make anything work everywhere for everybody.

    In my estimation if one has a sound system that requires some form of signal shaping to get it to sound like he or she wants it to in the room they chose to put the system in and then refuses to use some form of signal shaping, passive or digital, that person is also foolish.

    I personally applaud what seems to be the new direction of JBL creating ultra low distortion drivers with very few compromises and shaping the magnitude response electrically.

    I personally really like the sound character of the 6600's. I don't know if they are the perfect match for me but poor design? Sorry but nope

    If you want to have a conversation, let try it. I'm in.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  12. #12
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieSteve View Post
    Throw an idea in the mix, and insults abound. JBL love disciples like you guys, blinded by passion regardless of science. Original recordings are not really meant to be reworked by EQ or DSP, some component and speaker makers do enough of that later. Not one review I have read state Everest speakers have enough bottom end for their price, especially full range orchestral music. I express my opinion here and get hammered by some people who are too immature to discuss ideas. I notice by some thread photos that some people have poorly designed listening rooms and NO room treatments! That is acoustics 101, even on a budget. With a background like JBL's, and their facilities it seems to me to be a shame they have left the audiophile approach and become far too corporate. JBL really should be making USA products of such a massive standard everyone else follows them, it's not a nice thought but either Mr Timbers and his team buy out the speaker division or new designers are employed - not nice to say I know, just a thought. I now bunker down and wait for the missiles!
    I have no issue with alternate viewpoints. In most circles mine typically are.

    And I don't think you are trolling or simply being a contrarian... but you are covering quite a number of discrete topics in your post above... many have been bludgeoned to death in other threads, but all are valid.

    1. Sure, this is the home of Lansing Fans... by definition. Some will buy anything with a JBL or Altec badge on it, others are more discerning. Whether we are interested in the subjective enjoyment of music in our homes or objectively trying to quantify what we hear. There is a wide mix of interest and ability here.

    2. Original recordings are not meant to be EQ'd? There are distinctly two schools of thought on that one. In the audiophile analog domain, most high end electronics have offered no tone controls for decades now, but then there were products like the Cello Palette... geared squarely at audiophiles and not meant for room correction but to do exactly which you claim is illegitimate. I'd say this is a personal choice.

    3. "Not one review..." How valuable do you really feel product reviews are? Most are goofballs like you or me spouting their opinions.

    4. Now about full ranged orchestral playback... Post #15 and I stand by that comment in that other thread. I can flush out the details if you like.

    5. Getting hammered by others... immature or otherwise. Well, I am pretty sure if I jump on an NFL forum and start dumping on the idiocy of tax breaks for billionaires and how the game is pretty silly... I'm gonna get dumped on. Some people will have intelligent things to say and others will call me names. This is to be expected.

    6. Individual system installations, acoustics, etc... this topic deserves an entire thread category. Many music lovers, audio enthusiasts, dare I say it, audiophiles, do not even have a chair in the sweet spot of the stereo reproduction... they may have a coffee table there or the room is set up with the speakers at right angles to each other... I've seen it all. Funny how some of these people then discuss their system's imaging. Hey, it's a hobby. If you're happy with what you've got, then you are doing it right.

    7. Corporate? Harman is about making gains in the stock market... period. Now there are individuals there who work hard despite this and they occasionally make fabulous speakers, amps, and a whole host of other audio related goodies, but the mission statement is only on paper. They like most publicly traded companies run quarter to quarter chasing the money.

    8. JBL should be... that died decades ago. See #7 above.

    9. What you are describing for Mr. Timbers et al has been pondered numerous times on this Forum. I think he likes having the resources of a multi-billion dollar company at his disposal... and I am sure he gets frustrated as hell at times too, but the pay checks still clear. Most small audio companies go bust in a few years.

    10. No grenades or drama... just alternative views.


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  13. #13
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    I'm just happy I've finally been nominated to the esteemed echelon of Old Ratbag!

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    I'm just happy I've finally been nominated to the esteemed echelon of Old Ratbag!
    I thought your response was outstanding and the thread could have easily closed on it. I wish I had your tact.

    I want to visit his house and disengage the tone defeat on his preamp so I can see his whole world view shatter in an instant.


    Here's what I really think about the K2 and E2:

    They are $40k and $75k per pair, ultra-wide bandwidth, ultra-low distortion loudspeaker systems using the best loudspeaker components available and it would be a cold day in hell that I left the passive networks in them and didn't go fully active with DSP. Yes, the passive filters were pretty neato and all that, before the M2 came out and I had a chance to interact with it. And that is how we evolve I guess.

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    Senior Member DavidF's Avatar
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    I suppose I could track down a Magico-aligned forum (is there one?) and inject an "idea" prefaced with the statement below.

    Magico speakers needing high-current amp with at least 200 watts/channel = Poor Design

    For many Magico owners I would be accused of incitement no matter how I tried to temper my opinion. I presume most Magico owners know that trying to use a treasured single ended tube amp to drive their speakers ain't going to cut it. And so they aren't likely to accept my statement that this was a design fault.

    So if in your opinion the Everest high-sensitivity designs don't meet your specific expectations for a properly engineered high-end speaker, so be it. It may be a stretch to assume others- who know and accept the engineering trade offs in these high-sensitiviy JBL systems- share the same expectations.

    Good listening...that's what it's all about. How we get there will always be a little different.
    David F
    San Jose

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