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Thread: D130 vs D130F and D131 vs D131F

  1. #31
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound
    Sounds like the D120F's you have are a candidate for a magnet recharge....also, are the aluminum domes in place or have they been replaced with paper domes?....the aluminum dome with a fully charged magnet is where that "chime" tone character comes from.

    If the speaker has been dropped or jolted around or constantly subjected to high temps, been near lightning storms....lots can happen in 50 years if you don't know where they've been.
    THAT's where I was coming from.

    Nice one, edge...
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  2. #32
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    I didn't try the LE12C-1 on tonite's gig, I was too scared to try it at louder volumes. Although it was a small club.

    I used my main 2-12 enclosure tonite with one of my D131Fs and one of my Jensen H-222 12" Coaxial. The Jensen horn crosses at 2k and reaches 15k or higher. It has a replaced heavy duty diaphram. The horn is efficient enough to compliment the D131F with headroom. And the Fender Tweed chime, I seek, is there. But I wish to accomplish this with all JBL components. My old D131s did this back in the 1970s.

    I cannot hear the woofer of the Jensen, thank goodness. It looks like a P12N bored out to accomodate the small compression driver mounted on the back of the woofer magnet. A 6 cell lense is in the front center of the speaker.

    The domes of my D131Fs are aluminum and no dents. A nice tiny and uniform bead of glue connects them to the cones(not spread out like some pics I've seen on eBay).

    There is a very tiny bit of black glue covering the diaphram wires, that is also on top of one aluminum dome. The cones are #131-404 and there is a red circular stamp on the baffle-gasket. I'm not experienced to tell if it is a recone job, though. Although I was guaranteed that they were never reconed, by the original owner.

    I have only had this pair of D131Fs for 8 years. Aside from dust on the fronts of the cones and lugnut scratches, they are pristine, still. I don't know of the previous history with heat, etc.

    I rotate them around in the enclosure every year, or so, to even out sag.

    I am not familiar with "Magnet Recharging". The D131Fs are extremely efficient. They just seem to lack the hi-frequencies(chime) that I crave for guitar. Is that a symptom of needing a recharge?

    How do I get a magnet recharge?

    Thanks,
    dp



    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound
    Sounds like the D120F's you have are a candidate for a magnet recharge....also, are the aluminum domes in place or have they been replaced with paper domes?....the aluminum dome with a fully charged magnet is where that "chime" tone character comes from.

    If the speaker has been dropped or jolted around or constantly subjected to high temps, been near lightning storms....lots can happen in 50 years if you don't know where they've been.

    Oh....and don't bother with the LE12C....you'll just hurt it.

  3. #33
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpapazoni
    I didn't try the LE12C-1 on tonite's gig, I was too scared to try it at louder volumes. Although it was a small club. . . . .
    I'm very glad to learn that. You probably saved yourself an embarassing moment.

    David

  4. #34
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    Angry Help matching JBLs.

    Thanks SpeakerDave,

    Yes, better safe than sorry, on the LE12Cs. They sound like a million bucks in the Fender Amp for my studio. And for stereo speakers. I think they sound better than my L100s. And they are still perfect and sellable, if I decide.

    But, I just outgrew my L100s, too. My ears were just opened wider from my new 030 system, even though I have found that I need to buy a matched pair of D130s(not 1 at a time mismatches).

    Fine tuning the fiberglass inside the cabinets has made the plywood breath right along with the D130s. Then accented with the 075s. I did have to add some bass from my preamp. Harvey is so right about the size. But still, Wow! Totally Unbelievable!



    I do need help in getting a mid-hi frequency boost in my main guitar speaker enclosure, though. My amplifier head is lacking in this area.

    I am using 1-D131F and a real crappy Jensen RP106 driver(which is on the H222 Jensen 12" Coaxial). I cannot hear the Jensen woofer because of the efficiency of the D131F.The Jensen horn crosses is at 2k and reaches 15k or so. It crudely compliments the D131F beautifully.

    I get an amazing "almost Holy Grail" chime with this combination. I have been seeking this chime since mid 1970s, when I foolishly lost(sold) my original 1950s Fender Tweed Super Amp. I used the Super as an amp head only and a separate closed back enclosure. That amp with 2-D131s gave me complete "Holy Grail" chime.

    I have a pair of JBL nice 2105 mids just hangin around. I bought them several years ago for this purpose:

    What are your thoughts of using: 1 or a pair of 2105s(8 ohms each) with a high-pass filter at somewhere around 1600Hz-2000Hz, to compliment 1-D131F(a 16 0hm 2130). I have hunch that the 2105(s) would be better than the Jensen ringy metal horn.

    Do you feel there is enough efficiency in the 2105(s)?

    And then, I would need to learn what value capacitors to get for 1600k-2000K and how to hook in an L-Pad. Probably get several frequencies to experiment with.

    The 2K high pass filter on the Jensen might be a little too high. My G(1568HZ) is a little soft. My adjacent G# amd F# are fine. I do not want to affect F#-1480Hz(important), while giving G(1568Hz) and up a boost. The 2105 curve in the library looks good, when the lows are rolled off, to me.

    My guitar amp is around 25-30 watts RMS(2-5881 tubes for power) and is looking for 4 ohms. I have been running it at 8 ohms(2-16 om speakers).

    I have tried all the "Holy Grail" tubes in my search for this particular chime. My amp is a "second attempt"-custom built Fender Tweed Super Amp in a Fender Bassman head , but something is different from my lost original.

    I'm hoping the 2105s will complete this "Holy Grail" chime that I lost. The Jensen horn is amazingly close.

    What are the thoughts? Maybe there is even a better way.

    Thank you,
    dp

  5. #35
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    The double 2105's might be worth a try. As you say, they have the right response range. Maybe you will discover a new magic.

    (This is all guess work for me, by the way--outside of my experience)

    It may be that the particular effect you liked in the Tweed with its double D131F's, as you call them, can only be achieved with the interaction of those two twelve-inch, metal-domed drivers. I dunno.

    David

    Edit: Do you run your D131 full range?

  6. #36
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    16 ohms?

    Yes, I run the D131s at full range, David. I only use the horn boost, to compliment the D131s.

    I was wondering if anyone knows if JBL used 8 ohm voice coils in their 16 ohm rated speakers? Every 16 ohm speaker that I have seen or heard of, measures less than 8 ohms on an ohm-meter. (including D130, D131, 075 and maybe more)

    I have a pair of red-wax factory seals intact on my 16 ohm 075s, and they measure less than 8 ohms. Many people on eBay are also wondering why?

    Which leads me to another question: When I select capacitors for my high-pass filter, do I use factory ratings or actual DC resistance ohms, to obtain my desired frequency range change?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpapazoni
    I was wondering if anyone knows if JBL used 8 ohm voice coils in their 16 ohm rated speakers? Every 16 ohm speaker that I have seen or heard of, measures less than 8 ohms on an ohm-meter. (including D130, D131, 075 and maybe more)

    I have a pair of red-wax factory seals intact on my 16 ohm 075s, and they measure less than 8 ohms. Many people on eBay are also wondering why?

    Which leads me to another question: When I select capacitors for my high-pass filter, do I use factory ratings or actual DC resistance ohms, to obtain my desired frequency range change?
    Simple answer; back then, we lied. Why? Because the 8 ohm system sounded better when hooked up to the 16 ohm tap of the amplifer.

    The 16 ohm speakers were really 8 ohms (about 6.7 ohms, DC) and the 32 ohm speakers were really 16 ohms (about 12 ohms, DC) . If the speaker has a DC resistance of around 6 or 7 ohms, use 8 ohms impedance for your calculations.
    Harvey "Hifi" Gerst
    ("Hifi" was my nickname at JBL.)

  8. #38
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    Wow! Thank you Harvey.

    I have been unsure for so long.

  9. #39
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    Help, I'm lost in a chime,

    I want to thank everyone here,

    I just bought a small combo cabinet(Fender style) to house: one JBL D131F and two JBL 2105s and my Fender amp chassis, itself. I didn't have a housing for the 2105s and don't want them damaged.

    The 2105s in series are so versatile and efficient in complementing a single D131F running at full range, to enlarge a Lansing-Fender chime my amp produces with a D131F. I am using an LPad to calm them and I've been experimenting different crossover frequencies using a high-pass filter for the 2105s.

    That beautiful guitar chime is there and so flexible. I have to be careful not to over do it, I love it so much. It opens a new depth of expression.

    Soon, I will send the D131F that I'm not using to for a checkup as I can afford it, the regaussing maybe and any other recommendations they might have.

    Once I get that one back, I will send the other one to JBL and use the revitalized one.

    Everyone has been so helpful on this subject. Thanks, so much.

    Harvey, your ears have heard much more than mine, and your favorites are the D123s for stereo. There must be good reason. I will check a pair out when I have chance to afford them.

    You came from the "Golden Era" of JBL. It is such an honor to have you helping me. Thanks for enlightening me on 16 ohms and 8 ohm speakers.

    Also, thank you so much for the D131F and D120F, those speakers have inspired my guitar playing since 1963, as they have so many "Guitar Greats". I always wanted to own a D130F in a Fender Showman, but my cards never fell that way. But I've been using it's 12" brother without fail, since 1963.

    And another special thanks to SpeakerDave for your immense help.

    The same thanks goes out to everyone that responded to my dilemma, and all the people that made Lansing Heritage a reality.

    Well, I'm going to finetune that guitar chime some more. It's beautiful already, and as only JBL can make it sound. I have polypropylene caps coming soon. I've been using electrolytic, because that is all that is available locally(RadioShack).

    Has anyone ever got really lost in a chime, before? Oh boy! Talk about expression and inspiration.

    I have many more questions, but I have plenty answers to work on, at the moment.

    This is such a fantastic place.

    Thank you all,
    Darrell

  10. #40
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    D130F all paper, not aluminum, frequency response?

    I am using a JBL 130F in a blackface guitar amp. When it was reconed they used paper instead of aluminum. I can hear a loss of high frequency and it seems to have lost some efficiency. However, it sounds good with the amp (the AB763 circuit is very chimey).

    Does anyone know where I can find the stats for a D130 or D130F with a paper instead of aluminum cone?

  11. #41
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    Sounds like they might have reconed it to a 130A.
    Harvey "Hifi" Gerst
    ("Hifi" was my nickname at JBL.)

  12. #42
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    Thanks. I'll check the specs on a 130A.

  13. #43
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlatrace View Post
    I am using a JBL 130F in a blackface guitar amp. When it was reconed they used paper instead of aluminum. I can hear a loss of high frequency and it seems to have lost some efficiency. However, it sounds good with the amp (the AB763 circuit is very chimey).

    Does anyone know where I can find the stats for a D130 or D130F with a paper instead of aluminum cone?

    We really need pictures to see what you have, and if indeed it's genuine JBL parts/recone kit.

    Lot's of aftermarket hackers out there these days claiming it's "restored to factory specs" when, in fact, it's not even close, due to the wrong voice coil specs installed. That can lead to a perceived loss in efficiency because the DC resitance of the coil is wrong, and has a copper instead of aluminum wire edgewound coil.

    There is on occasion when a customer will request a paper dome on a genuine recone to tame the upper edge, but then... viola'...that "JBL Sound" that they claim to not like....well... end up regretting the change.
    Part of that "chime" that some refer to is the aluminum dome.

    So....can you upload pics?
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  14. #44
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    C36 Cabs with 15" Drivers

    Darrell, I just came across your d130 thread. Just an FYI, I'm real happy with my d130's & my 130a's in 2 pairs of C36 cabs. I wish I could use them for bass (d140f's), but they are just too heavy to haul around.

    Bill

  15. #45
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    The sales rap, to keep the audio guy in the right store, was that the hi fi speaker was more accurate and delicate and did not have a sound of its own. The "F" model was ruggedised. That it had its own sown was OK, even a plus. Having said this, you already have answers from people with inside knowledge that I don't have so my information may all be sales hyperbole.

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