Jbl W horn info help

[matsj]

Hello i have som questions on the W horn for 18".

Does someone have some dravings on it ?
How does it play in freqvensy low-high?
What speaker fits in it ?
Does it play " hifi " ?
Is it made of Jbl ?

regards mats

[Don McRitchie]

To my knowledge, JBL never made a "W" bin for their 18" drivers. However, I know that such enclosures have shown up in Europe with a four digit number similar to JBL's professional enclosure model numbers. I'm pretty sure that this was the work of one of JBL's European distributors. In the 1970's JBL seemed to give their distributors great leeway in marketing their products. For example, I know that their UK distributor, Felton, developed a studio monitor that they called the 4326 consisting of the 2216, 2440 and 2405. However, JBL had no hand in its design or manufacture. They simply supplied the drivers. I suspect that the same is true of the "W" horn enclosure you mentioned.

BTW, "W" bins are generally less extended in low frequency compared to bass reflex sub boxes of similar size. Unless they are inordinately large, or EQ'd, the horn size is just too small to gain deep bass response.

[louped garouv]

is this like what you are looking for? I have not yet built this horn, so i don't know how it performs.

[matsj]

Yes nearly the same, i think there should be 2 ports on it to.
I don´t know how many versions there is on the W horn.

regards mats

[caladois]

It really look like VITAVOX bass horn. But these were for dual 15 inches !!! Werent they

[Benkev]

Maybe you're thinking of this?

http://zmatek.jinak.cz/diy/wbin/w.doc

[Earl K]

Great link Benkev !

- That's the missing W151 ( W460 ) horn developed by D.B. Keele / for JBL .

- Here's the web-site that it came from .

Thanks for the posting

[Earl K]

Does someone have some dravings on it ?

- see Benkevs' above link ( you need to have MS Word ) .

How does it play in freqvensy low-high?

- The 6 db down point for the low end is 60 hz .
- I personally would not use them above 180 hz .

What speaker fits in it ?

- It was developed for the K151 , then the E155 & 2240H ( even the 2245H is mentioned in Cdn literature ). I don't know about using the 2241 or 2242 with the existing tuning/porting .

Does it play " hifi " ?

- No, for home use stick with reflex tuned 18s ( IMO ) . A single W151 occupies a bit over 16 cu ft. You can get much better performance taking those cubic dimensions and dividing it into two boxes of @ 8 cu ft each . You'll get smoother, deeper LF with a pair of 2245H woofs working in 8 cu ft boxes .

Is it made of Jbl ?

- As Don said, JBL corp. never actually directly marketed these boxes, but ;
(i) They did engineer the design ( according to the drawings & my info ) plus
(ii) Supplied these design drawings to all JBL distributors. This was done to help sell raw product . The individual distributors were left to make and market the boxes as they saw fit ( the one caveat was they had to be loaded with JBL woofers )
- A mention of this product is made in JBLs' own Technical Notes ( Vol. 1 , No. 1 )
- JBL also had a design for a companion lowmid horn that was easy to make ( using all planar surfaces ). Don Keeles' name also appears on its' working drawings .

[matsj]

Thanks Benkev that is exactly what i searched for.

Earl K: I realy want a sub horn for a jbl 18" but the most i have found dont play down to 20hz and below.
I allready have 4 2245 to my home cinema but my other speakers plays a lot more. 2 Edgar 80hz horn, 2 4530 with 2226 and 3 double 2226 boxes + 5 jbl 2382 with 2446 and 2450 drivers.

I don´t know how Mr Edgars sub horn looks like with 2240 and how it plays.

regards mats

[Earl K]

Earl K: I realy want a sub horn for a jbl 18" but the most i have found dont play down to 20hz and below.

- That's because to get to 20hz one needs to include portions of that very long pathlength coupled to a sizable mouth ( flare / bell ) . Most of the LF horns made over the decades ( that have available plans ) ultimately comromised their LF capability so that they could become physically more manageable / and therefore transportable ( for us SR industry types ).

I allready have 4 2245 to my home cinema but my other speakers plays a lot more. 2 Edgar 80hz horn, 2 4530 with 2226 and 3 double 2226 boxes + 5 jbl 2382 with 2446 and 2450 drivers.

- If 4 , 2245H woofs in BR boxes aren't cutting it now / then I'm at a loss as to why . But ( with these plans now in hand );
- You could always make a set of these W460 ( W151 ) boxes and increase the path-lengths to lower the horns cutoff frequency. You'd need to experiment by adding ( straight 45° ? ) flares onto the horns mouth ( on all 4 sides). You need to speak with someone who actually builds LF horns as to the feasibility of expanding the mouth area ( & the inevitable trade-offs ). You are also going to need advice on reporting that compression chamber ( or maybe just closing it off ).
- Unfortunately, I'm not the guy to talk with, even though I owned and used these bass bins for about 15 years in the 80s' & 90s'. ( I do like them when used within their intended application ).

I don´t know how Mr Edgars sub horn looks like with 2240 and how it plays.

Don't count on finding plans for Dr. Edgars "Seismics" !
- Building and selling horn-systems is his bread & butter . Published "plans" endanger that ability to make a living .

[matsj]

Hey earl k and other: 4 piece of 2245 really rocks, but i feed them with 3,4 kw of power . If i change my 4 2245 to 1 horn i don´t need so much power.

If someone have a solution and could come up with a horn ,that play down to 20hz please write here. ( i know horns that play down to 20 hz are big ) but maybe someone have a "smaller" one.

To feed my midbass i have 3 crown k2 ( 1 front left-right, 2 center, 3 surround. To my subs i have a qsc 3402 and to my high drivers i have a self made 5 channel Hypex ucd 180.

regards mats

[Mr. Widget]

Don't count on finding plans for Dr. Edgars "Seismics" !
- Building and selling horn-systems is his bread & butter . Published "plans" endanger that ability to make a living .

Beyond that, I have heard a pair of them running in a moderate sized room and they didn't blow me away... there was no VLF output... I much prefer a pair of Sub1500s or 2245s.

Hey earl k and other: 4 piece of 2245 really rocks, but i feed them with 3,4 kw of power . If i change my 4 2245 to 1 horn i don´t need so much power.

That's true... a horn will be more efficient, but it won't be smaller than four 2245s and who cares if you are using a few kilowatts or only 100 watts?

If someone have a solution and could come up with a horn ,that play down to 20hz please write here. ( i know horns that play down to 20 hz are big ) but maybe someone have a "smaller" one.

It is impossible to produce a VLF horn that is small. A horn that has a cut off of 20Hz will be bigger than most people's listening rooms. There have been custom built horns that use an adjoining room or basement that will do what you want, but the time delay due to path length isn't trivial, the cost is great. I'd speculate the results are not worth the effort and expense. There are very good reasons why these things aren't common.


Widget

[subwoof]

Back in the 80's I built a bunch of these "151" horns and made a few observations.

(1) If you read the literature, these were designed to be used in multiples that are stacked. 8 ( yes EIGHT ) are required for the full size mouth. Using them singularly was a waste of space..

(2) We used darn near every JBL made and all performed well except the 2245. The woofer was fine but the required super-steep crossover / amplifier rolloff filters were not available and they often over-traveled and were destroyed.

In the movie "earthquake" Cerwin-Vega designed a analog bandpass filter / pink noise generator that was triggered of the optical film and used a multiple of single 18 "W" cabinets that are very similar in design. In order to get the maximum bass extension, a full sheet of plywood was attached to the top and an angle cut 1/2 sheet ( with a 45 degree splay ) on each side. The floor provided the bottom boundry.

This worked out very well but the distance of the "throw" and the natural sloping ( upwards ) of the theater floor made the pattern problematic.

My company re-installed 4 of these ( with wings ) into a local college bar / rec room that was located in the basement of a dining hall.

The output on the nearby dance floor was barely adequate. However it managed to remove every item off the adjoining kitchen walls and the air pressure modulated the entire air handling system. Kids loved it, the school didn't.

In short, a 20hz horn with a usable output will be bigger than your last 3 cars combined.

I would suggest the 4688 ( do a search on this site ). That will give you flat to 20 or so at a decent output.

SKOL



sub ( as in subwoof )

[Zilch]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...4&postcount=18

[more10]

Found the building plans on the net. There are 4 for sale close to where I live. How do they sound?