Questions on Altec Flamenco 848A

[Gary L]

The black goo meltdown is a fact of life with all the altec accordion style surrounds. Best thing is to flip the woofers 180 degrees every few years so it flows in opposite directions.
Not sure how badly you tore the surround but if not too bad I think you could use some preparation to repair this your self and get by for quite a while before a rebuild is necessary. Those surrounds are quite tuff and last a long time even with a tear or two and I doubt it would affect the sound at all unless it is a bad tear. I repaired one of my old ones with some black silicone used for installing windshields but it was just a hole where a screw driver went thru the surround.

Interesting how the driver is sunk into the rear panel and covered over with luan! Is it an 811B horn or the larger 511B?

Sorry I can't help with getting the grills off. Often wondered how this was done myself but I am sure someone here will help with that.

Nice speakers and basically they are the upgraded model of the 846 in a fancier cabinet. Many here swear they do best with tubes but I have had many and always was quite happy with good SS running them.

GPA can repair all the components so you are a few steps ahead of the Vintage game with Altecs.
Enjoy and welcome to the world of horny Altecs.

Gary

[telynau]

Here is a pic inside one of the Flamenco's. Regards, James

[telynau]

Yuck. Send in those helpful hints on how to disassemble the front speaker baffle! Regards, James

[telynau]

Thanks, Gary. The horns are 16 ohm 806A's. There is also a little printed box, inside of which there is an "AL" on the top, then a horizontal line and "85" on the bottom. The manufacture date is stamped on them (391028); in addition, there are what I expect are serial numbers (3568 and 3596).

I took the other speaker apart tonight and although the bottom of the speaker surround was stuck to the front baffle it didn't tear. However, the surround is cracked in a couple other places, so it needs some repair too.

Is Great Plains Audio the best place to go? I will probably want them to check the horn drivers as well as check over the woofers. Not sure how hard it is to check out/restore the crossovers but I will want to do that too. I am a typical enthusiast and now that I have everything apart I won't be happy until I make sure all of the components function as correctly as they can given their age and are preserved in proper condition to play another 20 years or more.

Do people ever replace the back panels themselves? The pressed board is very dry and basically crumbles when you put any kind of strain on it.

BTW, I am not a complete philistine when it comes to restoring old hi-fi. I always save all the parts I swap out and try not to do anything that can't be reversed, so some future fanatic can do a 100% correct and authentic restoration way down the pike. Regards, James

[Gary L]

The horns are 811Bs and mounted from the front of the flange making them set deeper into the cabinet. Thats why the cutout exists.

GPA is about the only place I would send this stuff and when you send the woofers for rebuild I think he will also recharge the magnets in the horn drivers for no additional charge. You will end up with basically brand new drivers and all original. They can also replace the diaphrams in the 806 HF drivers if necessary.
Recapping the XOs is quite easy and could be a DIY project if you can solder. Pretty rare that the resistors ever go but caps are a good idea.

Others can help with your other questions but they sure do look like nice speakers and in great original condition.

Gary

[louped garouv]

if the tear in the surround is small enough, you can scrape the 'goo' from the baffle and place it on the surround where the tear is, apply a bit of heat with a hair drier and the goo will settle into the tear... when it gets back to normal temp (a few mins) it is almost indiscernable (if the tear is small enough)

[bogator]

I have enjoyed very much reading the above posts concerning the Altec Flamenco speakers. I have a pair of these speakers that I have been using since I bought them new in 1967. I have learned quite a bit from the discussion. I think that I should open them and check them out. They have been through four amplifiers (receivers) and are now part of my surround sound system with my 65" Sony HDTV and a Yamaha HTR-5460 receiver. BTW, I also have the matching equipment cabinet.

[intotubes]

That is excellent advice on using the goop for a repair of a small tear. I removed some that had pooled at the bottom fo the surround with a hair dryer. It softens readily. I also rotated my LF drivers 180 for good measure and plan to do it again in 10 years or so.
I hadn't seen it run so bad before. Thanks for the pics! Did it actually run on the outside of the baffle, gluing the cloth to the baffle? (hope not).
Good luck with those - they look great.

[Gary L]

Keep an eye on the goo! If alot of it did pool at the bottom and now you have it rotated 180 degrees, it could start running down the face of the cone. Depending upon how much has pooled at the bottom, it might be wiser to rotate only 90 degrees to avoid the run down the cones.

As noted, heat is the cause so a speaker that was or is exposed to direct sun or heat source is more prone to runs. I have seen cones with goo from the top to the dust caps and looking pretty poor so it is wise to keep a close watch and rotate so the goo flows along the surround only.
I would be very carefull with the hair dryer as this could cause some separation of the surround to frame adhesion if it gets too warm.

Does anyone know the exact properties of the Goo or if it is available?
I had a woofer shipped in styrofoam and the goo now has little white styro balls imbedded in it. I have carefully used a tweezer to get most out but this has left some bare spots in the goo.

Gary

[moldyoldy]

......Does anyone know the exact properties of the Goo or if it is available?
I had a woofer shipped in styrofoam and the goo now has little white styro balls imbedded in it. I have carefully used a tweezer to get most out but this has left some bare spots in the goo.
Gary

Hi, Gary,
Surround dope has been changed more times than there are speaker models, but all versions were intended to seal the mesh openings in cloth surrounds, to keep the back wave and front wave separated, without altering the compliance of the surround.

For most cloth-surround Altecs except the 515G and the ER series (which used water-based Airflex 510, NLA) # 54007 solvent-based dope (also NLA) was used. Even though the spots you "picked" may appear bare, most likely the mesh is still sealed in those spots, so no additional dope would be needed. You can check it with a magnifier, with backlighting of the surround.

Regular 90 degree rotation is a good idea, it didn't used to be too unusual to open a cab and find a penciled, dated, and initialed rotation schedule inside. Not only does rotation keep the runny dope where it belongs, but it can prevent premature coil rubs caused by suspension sagging.

[louped garouv]

makes sense...

and yes i also feel it is important not to heat the goo too much....

[bogator]

If you have not removed the old grille cloth yet, here is a copy of the plans for that cabinet from 1968 that might shed a little light. I don't know if it will help, but here it is.

[telynau]

I spoke with Great Plains Audio. They can't repair just the surrounds -- they would have to recone the speakers as well. Given that the speakers sounded fine before I took them out of the cabinets, they recommended that I first try to brush some acetone on the congealed goo to dissolve it and then try to move it back around the surround, particuarly where the small tears are. Once this is done they said listen to the speaker and if it sounds OK, just leave it as is. They also said there was no reason to replace the horn driver diaphragms so long as they sounded OK. They do not repair the crossovers but said this was pretty easy to do if I wanted to. Again, the message was that if the speakers sounded good just leave things as they are. They seemed to think that if there was a problem with the woofers, horn diaphragms or crossovers it would be pretty apparent.

Thanks for the diagram -- it helps -- but I think I am going to have to drill out the heavy staples that fasten down the wood strips that hold the baffle in place. I will let you know how that goes when I get to it. The goo did not glue the speaker to the speaker cloth, though as you can see from the one picture the goo did seep into the cloth and stain it. Because of the elaborate black plastic grill on the Flamencos, however, you can't see the goo stain from the front unless you get down on your knees and look carefully for it.

Interestingly, the diagram refers to either plywood or pressed board for the backs of the speakers. I may decide to put the original backs away and have plywood boards made -- it would sure provide a better foundation for sealing the back, for example. The pressed board on my speakers literally crumbles if you handle the edges of the backs. Really crappy material that hasn't gotten better with age.

Regards, James

[moldyoldy]

Good news and great plan James. Your encounter with GPA is a great testament to their philosophy and practice of honesty and quality, truly rare and remarkable attributes in this day and age. How many companies can you think of that would offer such practical advice at no cost to you or profit for them when they could easily do otherwise?

I suggest that all owners of Altec speakers keep this in mind, and continue to support GPA with your patronage and praise.

[thegreek74]

Gift from a friend, like to get them back up and playing again... Opened the back they are in mint condition. Like to have the crossovers rebuilt and new caps.. The things are massive... Hope with little help I can tune them up..