Thanks for remindning me Scott.......
The AR 4X's sound KICK-ASS when flown about mid way up a wall matched with a Mcintosh 5100.
Also a JBL Minigon sounds TERRIBLE with the the 5100 or any other power amp I tried.
Thanks for remindning me Scott.......
The AR 4X's sound KICK-ASS when flown about mid way up a wall matched with a Mcintosh 5100.
Also a JBL Minigon sounds TERRIBLE with the the 5100 or any other power amp I tried.
I saw on the news stand yesterday the latest Sterophile magazine with a current day review of the small Advent in terms of current day . Quite an interesting read along the lines of what has been discussed here.
I dare say that this sort of discussion would be blown off by those cottage businesses attempting sell in the current vogue of "more detail is better" with the new new drivers and systems of today.
Back on old experiences I recall hearing the 4343 at a dealership in Richmond on a Luxman power amp about 200 watts a side. It was terrible...the model escapes me for the moment.
Downtown they sounded great on a GAS Ampzilla.
Despite being rather dated now I always had nice results bi amping the 4343 on the mid and top end with a Quad 405 current dumping amp from the UK. It was not a cheap amp at the time (late 70's $700) but I much preferred it to the Marantz 140 power amp and the BGW.
You can pick up the Quad 405 on Ebay for about 100 bucks ..a steal.
Lots of great debate here about new vs. old. It's one I have with friends quite often. On thing that stands out as absolutely true - for old or new - is that there is no "right" amp/pre/CD for all speakers. Trying to get the right mix for your speakers in your room with the recordings you like most, is something not done overnight. It may likely take quite a few swaps before you get the sound mix you like the most. I know it's been a voyage for discovery for me and I can't say with 100% certainty that I'm done.
It's all good, and a lot of fun in the process.
jblnut
I agree but the sticking point is: Is it better or change.
To illustrate the point and reflect on the previous posts I organised some comparisons of old versus new amps over the weekend using what I consider an old but good vintage loudspeaker. As The Widget fondly reminds me "... I am sort of surprised you, an obvious audiophile, are using the 4345"...Well I am not an audiophile and as someone ..possibly the designer of that system said ...screw you!! Anyway who cares..read on.
Oh well this makes it more interesting to subjectively assess if an old amp sounds better on an old speaker or does a new amp sound better on an old speaker.
To arrange this comparison l set up the JBL 4345 in full passive mode and invited a friend over.
Firstly, I set up a large Kenwood home theatre amp on loan to me, the KRF-V7773D. Its a few years old now but it was 2nd from top of the range, Crystal Shark processor and 120 watts x 5.
I have been using the processor aspect of this unit for some home theatre stuff via the preamp out puts so it was interesting to hear what its power amps would be like.
Well it sounded quite powerful and smooth and had a fleshy tonal charactor although the sound had a boogie factor to it that was a bit tiresome after a while. This quality is great for home theatre but not so good for Cd's or vinyl.
Then I tried out an old SAEXXX1B power amp rated at 50 watts per channel. The amp was connected via the pre amp outputs of the Kenwood ( taking a direct co-axial digital feed from the DVD/CD player)
The SAEXXX!B was a completely different kettle of fish. The bass was noticably more dynamic and natural sounding and sounded every bit as powerful if not more so than the Kenwood. The mids had an almost tube like tonal quality and the highs were clear.
This amp is a mid 70's vintage but is sounds superior to the modern amplifier using an old speaker system.
My final assessment was made connecting an X Aleph diy amp rated at 36 watts per channel. This is a modern current day soa diy design based on the Passlabs XA Series. No more need besaid.
This amp was different again but a vast improvement in every area over the other two amps. The engagement and level of exacting detail was such that the notion of listening to an amp and speakers dissolved in such a way that the focus on on the music.
My friend suggested it was the best thing he had heard period. That is probably not true because he has spent a fortune on his hifi system over the years. But is nice to know you don't have to be a member of the hifi/audiophile crowd to enjoy your favourite tune!
You did a 3-way amp shootout. One was DIY. I bet you had the speaker wire lifted up off the floor.Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
The vintage stuff sounds great on vintage music, but I dont like it as much on new music. I have modern in the main listening room and vintage in the basement.
Please list what you have, both vintage and modern.
Modern I have Tannoy System 1200s, 800s, Jbl4645c. Vintage I have diy 2way Altecs and Iconic S.H. V which are remakes of Altec 604-8ks. The 2-way Altecs are 511bs/802-8gs crossed over at 500hz to the 15.
As a younger guy I would say the vintage electronics I've listened too sound better at very low volumes but worse at mid to high volume. I think they sound different than modern stuff but not better.
From Wikipedia: Audiophile, from Latin audio "hear" and Greek φιλειν (philein) "love", is a word used to describe a person dedicated to achieving high fidelity in the recording and playback of music.
I guess Ian is not dedicated to or has no love for high fidelity in the recording or playback of music then... odd for someone who spends so much time tweaking circuits... oh well.
Widget
Hi Shane,
Your right, I have $10,000 teflon insutlators suspending the 12 gauge solid silver cables from the ceiling. (just kidding)
But I hope you are not mocking my kitchen table-diy amps. As a matter of interest both Carver and Pass built their prototypes on the kitchen table for before scaling up for production in the garage! Pass still uses his kitchen table (which I have sat at) for the exclusive First Watt Series.
In truth I find terminations a route of all evil in degrading sound quality. Mt Isa copper to copper please. Plated brass is for the audio infants like .........(See 4343-4344 upgrade thread)
"The vintage stuff sounds great on vintage music, but I dont like it as much on new music. I have modern in the main listening room and vintage in the basement"
I agree but there is vintage and there is vintage. Anything with an Alnico 2405 Slot Loaded Ring Radiator qualifies for new vintage. For the record I am not an advocate of paper and oil capacitors.
New techniques and technologies are being applied to many of those vintage designs yesterday and this is what is deemed hi-end audio by so many. The designs themselves were nice , the original execution at the time was only so so. Take the Manley amps for example in the Manely Mausoleum
http://www.manleylabs.com/mausoleum99.html or the new Hifi http://www.manleylabs.com/hifimain99.html with the Tannoys!!
Yawn.From Wikipedia: Audiophile, from Latin audio "hear" and Greek φιλειν (philein) "love", is a word used to describe a person dedicated to achieving high fidelity in the recording and playback of music.
I guess Ian is not dedicated to or has no love for high fidelity in the recording or playback of music then... odd for someone who spends so much time tweaking circuits... oh well.
Widget
I hate quotes from the American Nerds dictionary and I guess you are hard of hearing given I have brow beaten your squiggly little head senseless on this semantic dribble.
Most of you aspire to discovering the real facts behind just why your JBL's sound and work the way they do. I guess do that but on a much broader scale.......
Then there are those who talk the talk and walk the walk in circles...apparently.
That'd be me -- back and forth to the clinic every time I get a drivel....
Hi Ian,
I was only teasing and not mocking your DIY. I just thought your post was funny in a "I'm not an alcoholic but I drink a fifth of gin everyday" kind of way.
$9000 for a decent powered Manley. Thats only 4 times what the Tannoys cost. I'll take ten.
Yep,
I'm supposed to be at Sunday school, must go up there before the Keg runs out.
Ipods are the devil, the only thing i can say that doesnt seem to have diminished in quality of the years, are Headphones!, made from companys like Sennheiser, Grados, or something,
This, makes me cry, Never actually heard it, but i really dont think i want to.
http://www.apple.com/ipodhifi/
Young, but i love speakers!
Been Playing Eric through that little SAEXXX1B amp this afternoon.
I like the air and bite of this amp. There is a sort if synergy with the JBL's on that score. In comparison I have a really excellent GB150 mosfet amp that is so smooth and polite But it does not quite grab the edge of your pants the way this little old amp does.
Ever gone out and heard your favorite band at the local and stood 10 feet in front of the kit and an old Marshall 100 watt head with the Strat screaming ""Fire" . All you hear is the band not the FOH.
It's a bit like fire crackers going off in front of you but the focus is the soul of the tune and that's what its all about.
If you can't feel the soul of the tune something is wrong. I tend to find that more often than not with modern hifi, cold and clinical, sterile and lifeless. I've heard that also about a certain Japanese branded hi end stuff that is opposition to JBL. No wonder their market share is crap too.
Ian
Pic is Phil Para, The Espy Lounge.
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