upgrading the 4430 monitors

[Robh3606]

Hello Mike

This should probably be another thread but why care about time alignment. You are talking a couple of inches. Even the 4331 with it's long horn meets the not audible criteira which means all the 43XX series should be good too. This is based on the numbers published in the AES reprint about the developement of the 44XX series monitors. The Urei easily beats both but all 3 are well under the curve.

Rob

[Monte]

Tom,

Thanks for the tip on the Gold Sound 11's. They look great! ...and I salivated even more with the 14's!!

Gold Sound Speaker Kits

Kit 14 18" 4-Way System

Freq Response: 25-21kHz+/-3dB
Power Range: 600 WRMS 8 ohm
Efficiency: 95dB
Max. Volume: 120dB
Crossover: 80, 1200 & 5000Hz
Controls: midbass, midhorn, & tweeter level
Dispersion: 100 deg to 20kHz
Distortion: < 1% 3rd harmonic at 116 dB
Woofer: JBL 18" 2245H; 86 oz mag
Midbass: JBL 12" 2206H, 80 oz magnet
Midhorn: 2418H driver, biradial horn
Tweeter: JBL 2404H, biradial horn
Cabinet: 12 cf, 46x29x19"-OR-
Satellite: 0.9 cf, 19x12x10" &
Subwoofer: 12 cf, 46x29x19" (2 req'd)


$2498/pr.
(cabinets optional)

Kits Include Speakers, Crossovers, and Plans.
Cabinets are extra.

http://www.goldsound.net/kit14.htm

[Ian Mackenzie]

I reaslise this is off topic but,

The time alignment is a funny business, it depends on how much and what frequency. The AES curves suggest 2 khz is the most sensitive area in absolute terms the the ear.

In measurements I find the vertical displacement of drivers has more effect on the amplitude plot of the frequency response around the crossover point, but this can be tweeked out by adjusting Xover values if need be.

The Xover in the 4430/4435 was designed by an Aust scientist..yippy!! It was according to an AES paper I have buried away an All Phase network where the high and low pass are connected in Phase. The values of the Cap/inductors are arranged so as to have neither a peak or null at the xover, yet create a rolloff slope.

This style of network appears very sensitive to driver displacement as even a small change of an inch effects the response noticably at the Xover point. I assume this is due the the phase relationships of the high/low pass aspects of the network which are optimised for flat response. This type of Xover is reputed to have minimal group delay.

Ian

[4313B]

Ron Gold is a good guy. I've known him since he first started out and I think several people on this forum have had excellent dealings with him. Perhaps you should sell those pesky little 4430's intead of hacking them up and buy something from Ron. He puts significant R&D into his designs and I can pretty much guarantee anything he has would surpass any hack job you could visit on a pair of 4430's.

[mikebake]

Monte, what did you end up doing?

Thanks, Rob

0.4 – 0.5 ft3 was specified for the 2121/2123. Just checked. 0.4 is what the enclosure document specifies. 0.5 is what the 4343 actually has.

And yep, it could certainly be installed there. Remains to be seen how the decrease in volume would affect the bass. The way it is now, the 4430 as is, has the same internal volume as the internal FREE volume of the 4343b with it's own 2121 sub-enclosure (that is subtracting off the 0.5 ft3 sub-enclosure). However, making the similar change to the 4430--installing a 2121 sub-enclosure-- would decrease the internal volume by about 10%. How much does that eliminate bass response?

Or if I put the 2121 on top, it remains to be seen (I mean heard) if it is too far separated. Hmmm.

***Wait---I think I've got it!***

Take out the 2425H/2344. Cover the hole with a board that seals really well. Turn the 4430 upside down. The trestle (attached stand) is now on top. Remove the trestle. Make a grill that covers the entire 4430 (and I wanted to do that anyway). For that matter, make a matching grill that covers the new second box that sits on top and contains the 2425H/2344 which is along side a 2121H MF cone in it's own 0.5 ft3 sub-enclosure and also somewhere the 2405H UHF diffraction slot tweeter & crossovers. It needs no port, I guess.

The 2121 MF cone is close to the 15" woofer. The size of the woofer enclosure is a correct 5 ft3. The 2344 is alongside the 2121 so that it does not sit too high (the upper box would probably be a little wider). Anyway, that would put the 2344 about 3 1/2 ft. high, which is probably fine. Voila. The 4430-pseudo-4343. "The poor man's 4343."

Hey, maybe I can use that vacated hole to put in some sort of passive radiator. Heh-heh.

Something for me to think about!!

Later, Monte

[Monte]

Mikebake,

Thanks for asking. It's been a long time, and I have not gotten as far as I would like--things still unfinished. But I have gained more respect for and commitment to the 4430's.

In the meantime I had tried out another speaker that I had bought new. It had sounded great--with wonderful detail and accuracy--in the factory listening room (small company). But in my own home, I tried for a year but failed to get the same quality sound that I had heard. It was overly "analytical" and not as natural and warm as the 4430 turned out AFTER returning to it. In the meantime I had pretty much written off and ignored the JBL's during the time with the other speakers.

Returning to the 4430's, I moved all the speakers to another wall (under a slanted ceiling--more reflective--shaped somewhat like a band shell) for redecorating reasons. I hooked them up to a nice class A amp. It was a real ear-opener. In that setting, the newer, "analytical" system still seemed over-bearing, even more so, while the wall and ceiling worked with the JBL's plus the Class A electronics brought out the 4430's natural warmth. I really like the dynamic, effortless sound, more like live music.

Later, reconing the 2235's definitely helped. Getting better all the time.
Somewhere on this forum I had read about replacing the diaphragms. I'm sure the 2426's would benefit from that but have not done that quite yet.

Other future plans include going with a an active crossover. I've had my eye on Marchand electronics. And, I still want to add a midrange driver. If I can finish the whole project before 2005 is up, I would consider that a big success--for me!

I'll update again back to Lansing Heritage when it's all done.

Again, I appreciate your asking.

Monte

[mikebake]

"Thanks for asking. It's been a long time, and I have not gotten as far as I would like--things still unfinished. But I have gained more respect for and commitment to the 4430's."

Cool!


"In the meantime I had tried out another speaker that I had bought new. It had sounded great--with wonderful detail and accuracy--in the factory listening room (small company). But in my own home, I tried for a year but failed to get the same quality sound that I had heard. It was overly "analytical" and not as natural and warm as the 4430 turned out AFTER returning to it. In the meantime I had pretty much written off and ignored the JBL's during the time with the other speakers."

Okay, what are they??????!


"Returning to the 4430's, I moved all the speakers to another wall (under a slanted ceiling--more reflective--shaped somewhat like a band shell) for redecorating reasons. I hooked them up to a nice class A amp. It was a real ear-opener. In that setting, the newer, "analytical" system still seemed over-bearing, even more so, while the wall and ceiling worked with the JBL's plus the Class A electronics brought out the 4430's natural warmth. I really like the dynamic, effortless sound, more like live music. "

Yup, that is what hooks you!


"Later, reconing the 2235's definitely helped. Getting better all the time.
Somewhere on this forum I had read about replacing the diaphragms. I'm sure the 2426's would benefit from that but have not done that quite yet."

Keep goin'!

"And, I still want to add a midrange driver."

I hear you. Just make that a whole 'nother project!

"I'll update again back to Lansing Heritage when it's all done."

Please do!

"Again, I appreciate your asking."

Welcome!