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Thread: upgrading the 4430 monitors

  1. #1
    Monte
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    Question upgrading the 4430 monitors

    Can anyone suggest any upgrade projects for the 4430's? I'm really open to any good-sounding ideas.

    My thoughts:
    1) Address high frequency rolloff by either:
    different horn or add a supertweeter + crossover
    2) Use an active external crossover in place of the internal. Thus biamp or triamp.
    3) Could it benefit from anything structural? Bracing?
    Any suggestions at all if you know what would make it sound better.

    Thanks!
    Monte

  2. #2
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    Monte,

    I can't comment on the box as I have not owned one but I currently use the 2344a with the JBL network as used in the 4430.

    I would say the design is as it stands is as good a 2 way as you can get using a horn.

    If you use Hovland caps in the crossover to upgrade it will improve the top end as will using a Class A amp in bi amp mode.

    Beyond the above the next step is to make it a 3 way and add a JBL 2123 mid cone or a PHL mid cone, I refer to this as the 2235 is not as accurate in the 300 - 1000 hz area.

    Ian
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  3. #3
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I have a set-up very similar to Ians with the 2122 and a 2416 on the 2344 horn. I am quad amping my set-up and am going to use the 4435 passive comp on the 2344. What I am planning is changing the crossover to a Charge Coupled network as an upgrade. Don't know what to expect sonically but we will see. I really don't miss the highs above the 2344 but I will eventually drop some slots on top or my mains and center to see if it does make a diference after I get the new crossovers squared away. Scuttle butt says you should give biamping a try just need to get the correct cards for one of the JBL actives 5234/5235. What don't you like about them???

  4. #4
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    Re: upgrading the 4430 monitors

    "Can anyone suggest any upgrade projects for the 4430's? I'm really open to any good-sounding ideas.

    My thoughts:
    1) Address high frequency rolloff by either:
    different horn or add a supertweeter + crossover
    2) Use an active external crossover in place of the internal. Thus biamp or triamp.
    3) Could it benefit from anything structural? Bracing?

    Any suggestions at all if you know what would make it sound better."


    I've found that the 4430 sounds best submerged in 20 feet of murky lake water.

    Dood! They're junk! Why throw good money after bad? Cut your losses and go buy a decent pair of loudspeakers. Why spend time and money hacking up a pair of 4430's in the vain attempt to make them sound listenable? I'll buy the woofer clamps off you for $20, that pretty much sums up the list of worthwhile parts in a 4430.

  5. #5
    Norbert
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    Wink Re: upgrading the 4430 monitors

    Giskard is absolutely right!
    The 4430s are the worst speakers I ever came across.
    I already have an eye on these woofer clamps too ...
    BTW there is a pair right now on Ebay/Germany (#3324697807), the clamps look terrific!
    Last edited by Norbert; 05-05-2003 at 01:27 PM.

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    Hmm,

    I have not heard the 4430 for years but I know people in the pro broadcast area have a mixed attitude to them if they have previously used the 4411/4412 or the older 43xx monitors.

    I imagine they don't come within a bulls roar of the 4311 or 4313's for midrange clarityand high frequency detail, even if they do not go as loud.

    I think this is the point really, you get used to what you have and adapt after a while, but when you hear something else the differences are obvious and so is the desire to improve, hence my shift back to the 43xx configuration after hear big brothers 4343's...I mean WOW.

    Depending on what Monte wants to do he still has a pair of 2235's and 2426 drivers which as excellent componts and a great foundation for a JBL project. With a nice mid cone and a set of slots you can really go places.


    Ian
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  8. #8
    Monte
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    Giskard, Norbert,

    So, what would you consider to be a decent set of speakers? --depends on the woofer clamps? --uh, huh--

  9. #9
    Senior Member jblwolf's Avatar
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    I'll offer $21 if their the old style clamps!!!-GOD love the old stuff!!

  10. #10
    Monte
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    I'm not tired of them in the sense that they have gone stale from long use. The truth is that I just bought them. I didn't get a chance to hear them first, although it's often the case that even if you do hear monitors, there are so many things you are hearing differently from ones own setup--it may be hard to single out the monitors.

    Since I didn't pay the price for great speakers, I shouldn't expect great speakers. I had all these rationalizations for what I might do in case I were disappointed.

    When I got them home, I ran this test. I did a direct AB with my B&W DM 640's, which are the only decent speakers that I've ever owned (and for a bunch of years, you see, so I'm very used to their sound). They are "95%" of B&W 802, series III, Matrix. I believe that that is the last series before Nautilus. They would be the same as 802's (same tweeters and mid) but for slightly smaller woofer and a bit different box (but not much different). The crossovers have been aftermarket improved. Audio by Van Alstine, who sold me the 640's, liked them better than the 802's. In the A/B comparison with the JBL 4430's, it was interesting how the two different speakers did not sound drastically different. I have heard at one time two speakers that were adjacent different models of the same brand that sounded more dissimilar. Back to the A/B, the 4430 was more robust and had bigger bass, sometimes tighter, but not always. In every other respect, I liked the B&W. It seemed to be cleaner, especially through the midrange and perceptively more extended. The 4430's do seem to have some image to them but still a bit boxy and just not as clean and detailed as I would like.

    I probably bought the 4430 naively, although the little guy with horns kept whispering, "well, if you don't like them, you can always sell them." Now I'm not so sure that I will enjoy the bother. In part, I just wanted to hear them in my room with my system, just to be sure. I also seemed to naively have in the back of my head that if there weren't something great, it might be fixable with different (......fill in blank)---except with the assumption that it would be the same box. I may be way off about the box.

    My primary use for them will be classical music as I am a professional classical musician. I probably have not listened to nearly as much audio as anyone reading this. Musicians spend so much time with live music, (you might be surprised how little many professional musicians listen to audio) that it's hard to know what to expect from playback systems and source materials. It's also hard to isolate the source of a characteristic and to use the language meaningfully.

    Anyway, after a long hiatus of listening seldomly, I'm back into audio, trying to put together recording and playback systems that are as accurate as I can get them.

    No, I have not heard the 4435's. I looked at the specs. The physical dimensions kicked off my "WAF" alert--not spouse friendly, I figured. The largest dimension of our room is 17 feet, so.......

    Anyway, I'll need to get more acclimated to some of the parts numbers, as I'm new to JBL.

    Where does one find plans for DIY JBL monitors??

    Thanks for the feedback!
    Monte

  11. #11
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    Monte,

    I know where you are comming from, I did the same thing a few years back with a pair of Altec 515Bs and a JBL Smith horn.

    The lows were great and upper mids so natural, but low/mids sucked and there was no sparkle in the tops.

    The Altecs had the dymanics and slam but were not as "HIFI" as my trusted RCF 6010 (poor mans 4412).

    The answer is persistance, and I would not give up on your acquisition yet.

    I added a set of JBL 077 slots, this was a quantum leap, I had an Altec 3 way 4333 monitor, and then later added 8 inch Audax mid cone to make it a low cost 4 way.

    The result was a very accurate system, even to a cassical buff.
    Finally I traded up to the 18 inch JBL 2245 woofers

    Essentially I just added things on to start with, even the small box for the mid cone I sat on top of the main box.

    This way you can entertain gradual change with improvement and learn as you go.

    There are plenty of capable and talented members on this forum who can assist you with design , trade parts and provide helpful hints as needed.

    As a muso you will be rewarded with the fruits of your labour, a number of us have treaded this path before you.

    My initial thought is to look at the midrange 1st, but tell us about the rest of you system. Where are you located?

    Ian
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  12. #12
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    This was the next phase with a lot of support from friends.

    Ian
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  13. #13
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    "Where does one find plans for DIY JBL monitors??"

    We don't need no stinking plans!!!!!

    Just fooling but asside from the box tunnings available on the Pro Site and some old DIY pamphlets from when they sold components for home builders there is not too much. Gold Sound used to have some kits and Pi Speakers also have some. For the clasic monitor's you are on your own. You would be surprised how much information is available in the library in the brochures. You get cabinet dimensions, internal volumes, even box tunnings on some systems. With just an hour here or there and the right questions you can get all you need on most systems. You also have the people on the site who will try to help you if you post here.

    I think Giskard is right you should leave the boxes alone. Try building your own based on one of the "classics" like the 4343 as an example. You can "clone" the crossovers as the schematics are available, or try to buy used of bi/triamp with actives. It really depends on what you are looking for and the time you have to play with the stuff. Can you do your own cabinets?? If you get the box volume for the woofer tunned up right and know what the subenclosure volume is for the 10" mid as an example you can figure the rest out and just go for it. It's fun!


    Rob
    Last edited by Robh3606; 05-05-2003 at 09:41 PM.

  14. #14
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    Finally, a well engineered 3 way,

    The bi radial JBL 2344 horn performs very well when supported by a suitable midrange driver.

    This does not mean to say the 15 inch woofer in the 4430 is crap, its just that everthing gets better when you optimise your drivers over their best working range.

    There are plenty of other fine examples of diy monitors our members have made! Just ask

    Ian
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    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 05-05-2003 at 09:49 PM.

  15. #15
    Monte
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    Man, you guys must live on this site!! Talk about fast responses. And thanks, Ian, for the pics.

    I live in Indianapolis. Can't hardly hear my sound system over the roar of the engines. No, wait, crank it up!…

    Yep, I should be able to manage enclosures. It will be my first time' round.

    So, you're thinking, keep the driver and horn.

    Keep the crossover (maybe). Anyway, if so,get the card 5234 or 5235 or 52-5130 and biamp (minimum).

    The 15" 2235 is o.k., although 18" would be nicer.

    Anyway, get a 2121H midrange. (I did find the jblpro.com tent sale).

    Since I'm into extended range, get the 2405 UHF for the high, tinkly stuff.

    So, Plan A, salvage or buy the above stuff, scheme, calculate and build appropriate cabinet which would be something like a 4343B.

    So, you're thinking that the components I have are worthwhile enough NOT to go with the alternate plan, infamous Plan B.

    Plan B. Do not take apart the 4430. Sell it when the smoke clears. In the meantime, buy up all the components for a 4343B. Attempt to build the 4343B by copying or faking it. Any rational thinking in that? It just comes down to, if it makes sense to cannibalize the 4430.

    Yeah, I just crunched a few numbers. The 4430 is worth more in its original form than as a partial donor to make a 4343B wanna be. There are people selling (or trying to sell) 4430's for closer to $2,000 than $1,000. That's really steep.

    What I'm using in audio components. Current amp is a hybrid ("FET Valve"), Audio by Van Alstine (avahifi.com). Eventually, I'll be going with his omega star amps and preamp (haven't bought yet) with the JBL's. I'm hoping to at least bi-amp.

    Oh yeah.
    What's the number for the horn for the 2420 driver? Is there anything else (I know about the 2308 lense) about the horn such as a throat or something? Probably all one piece.

    Is there only one 2405 UHF per monitor box? I see that it has it's one horn. Number for that? Thanks!

    Later,
    Monte

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