Thinking about building some cabs

[ranchak]

I'm thinking about building some PA speaker cabs. I don't know if these are going to be a good match, but I figured there can't be a better place to find out. I am thinking of building some 15" scoops using 2226Gs. For mid-bass I want to build some 2-12" cabinets using 2206Hs. I haven't figured out what to do for midrange and top end yet. This system will be used in small bars, we play classic rock: Skynyrd, Dio, Black Sabbath, etc. The PA will be mainly for vocals and drums. The guitars won't be run through the mains, but the bass will probably be. I'm open to suggestions and criticism. Maybe instead of 15" horns a dual 15" enclosure? This is project that I will work on as time and money allow, but I would like to start on the 2-12 cabinets first and then add the 15s. Thanks in advance.

[badman]

There would be a lot of overlap there, between the 12"s and 15"s. The 15"s in scoops (I'd want a pair) would give you quite a lot of output and be able to run up to a closed box 10" with a horn on top, if you want quite high output. a dual 12" box + 15" scoops seems redundant.

[Eaulive]

I think the same way.
And if you want more bass extension and more output I suggest the 4520, not the 4530. Then you can add a single 10" or 12" front horn loaded for mid-bass and go up from there.

[ranchak]

When you say you would want a pair of the 15s, do you mean per side? I was thinking of crossing over the 15s around 500hz, which is well below the ability of this cabinet. I want clean, clear and crisp vocals, that's why I was thinking of 12" in the mid-bass. The 2-12 cabs will run up to 2kHz. I really don't know if this is true, but in guitar 10" speakers can be harsh, but 12" speakers can sing and add some thump. The 2-12 cabs may be more mid-bass than needed, maybe a single fromt loaded 12?

[ranchak]

The 4520 cabinet is WAY TOO heavy, I'll never get anybody to help me move them. I like the idea, but I would rather stick with the 4530 design. If I had to I can build a total of 4 cabinets and use 2 or 4 as needed.

[Eaulive]

Oh, wait, this is for a mobile system?

Forget all this and get the newer stuff, smaller, lighter and as powerful.
The thing you're describing is good for a permanent install and for people who have a love of vintage stuff.

Be realistic, if these cabinets/speakers would still be competitive today, they would still make and sell them.

I don't say they don't sound good or are not powerful, it's just the size/SPL relationship that does not cut it today. In the good ole days the amplifiers were not that powerful so the speakers had to be efficient, today you can have gazillions of Watts for very cheap so... Small, light less efficient boxes with drivers that can handle a lot of power.

[4343]

The 4520 cabinet is WAY TOO heavy, I'll never get anybody to help me move them. I like the idea, but I would rather stick with the 4530 design. If I had to I can build a total of 4 cabinets and use 2 or 4 as needed.

4 per side is really nice! And yes the 12's could be 10's when using the front loaded scoops...

When I built 4530's I plotted out the flare and decided that the top rear corner should be hollow. I put a small piece cut at 45 degrees on both sides to smooth the bend. This allowed the outside corner to be 45 degrees as well, which is where I put handles. The bottom rear corner can be similarly angled for a pair of wheels. Tilt-back with the handles and roll 'em away... At first I used metal handles, but later I developed a method that was all wood, as shown in the following pic. Unseen is a small fillet in the corner to smooth the inside and strengthen the "handles". (These are not scoops, but EV Eliminator W-boxes.) The scoops can have really large wheels compared to these, and are much easier to roll on uneven surfaces than these! I like the scoops, you can load a monitor in the scoop when rolling them in or out to save a trip!

One thing you cannot see from the pics, the bottom angle should be 2 layers of wood, with the inside piece between the sides, while the outside piece is the full width of the cabinet. This way the weight is not trying to force the corner into the box, which it would if the wheels were on the inside piece only. See modified drawing. (Wheel is NOT to scale, but you get the idea...) HTH

BTW, the trim pieces in the horn mouth are not really required unless you want to put a grille in there. As stiffening, they might help, but I just put a nice thick layer of fiberglass on the outside...

[jcrobso]

I got mine from a dumpster!
I like the sound of the rear loading horn! I have home made C40s, I could take the same size box and put dual 15" in ported box and get way more bass.
From what others have posted the 4530 works best laid flat on the ground instead of standing up. A pair on the ground with the driver ends together is suppose to really good. Next year I'll try this with my C40s and see(hear) what happens.
Years ago I did an installation with a pair of 4520s loaded with 2226H, they were solid down to 30hz, I could really shake the room. Yes, the 4520 is a massive box, I know this for sure since I had to fly them!!

[Eaulive]

When I built 4530's I plotted out the flare and decided that the top rear corner should be hollow. I put a small piece cut at 45 degrees on both sides to smooth the bend. This allowed the outside corner to be 45 degrees as well, which is where I put handles. The bottom rear corner can be similarly angled for a pair of wheels.

The 4520 has inclinated flanges in the top corners as well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eaulive...7605606658974/

[Eaulive]

Years ago I did an installation with a pair of 4520s loaded with 2226H, they were solid down to 30hz, I could really shake the room. Yes, the 4520 is a massive box, I know this for sure since I had to fly them!!

You flew a set of 4520s???!!!!

[ranchak]

OK so if a 15" scoop isn't the way to go can someone suggest a 15" or 18" cab? I was looking over at speakerplans.com at the x10 an x12 designs. Maybe something like this would be better than the 2-12 cab that I was thinking about? What I'm looking for is bass that hits you in the chest when the drummer nails the kick drum. Over the weekend I was using a 2-15 cabinet that was just front loaded, it did a fair job, didn't project, but I didn't expect it to. Now 4 of these cabinets would have been great, but I don't want that much gear. I thought the scoops would project better than front mount. I could go to a full horn system, but alot extra work in building the cabs. Most of the bars aren't very big, the audience is maybe 50-75' away from the stage. I think a full horn system would be overkill and maybe not have much sound up close or in smaller rooms. I know I'm rambling and am all over on this topic. I just need some help/guidance. Thanks guys.