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Thread: 4430/4341 Dilema!

  1. #1
    Senior Member oznob's Avatar
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    4430/4341 Dilema!

    I really like my 4430's but my wife hates the cheeks! They are in great condition and I have a spare pair of 2235's for them. They sound awesome! I may have an opportunity to trade them for a pair of 4431's in similar condition. The woofers are being re-foamed by a very good tech. The 10 inchers need foam but everything else is working and looks great. So, a trade for the the 4430/2235 and an old Vincent integrated amp I have for the 4341's, "Deal or no Deal?"

  2. #2
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oznob
    I really like my 4430's but my wife hates the cheeks! They are in great condition and I have a spare pair of 2235's for them. They sound awesome! I may have an opportunity to trade them for a pair of 4431's in similar condition. The woofers are being re-foamed by a very good tech. The 10 inchers need foam but everything else is working and looks great. So, a trade for the the 4430/2235 and an old Vincent integrated amp I have for the 4341's, "Deal or no Deal?"
    Are you saying the spare 2235's go with the 4430's? I should think you would want to keep them and put them in the 4341's. You would want to then biamp. Store the 2231's (I assume the present woofers are originals) for the moment when you sell them.

    I don't know what the relative values would be. But WAF is important, and your deal seems OK to me (if you keep the spares).

    David

  3. #3
    Senior Member oznob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave
    Are you saying the spare 2235's go with the 4430's? I should think you would want to keep them and put them in the 4341's. You would want to then biamp. Store the 2231's (I assume the present woofers are originals) for the moment when you sell them.

    I don't know what the relative values would be. But WAF is important, and your deal seems OK to me (if you keep the spares).

    David
    Hi David,
    Thanks for the information. They have the original 2231's which I would probably opt to use and keep them stock. Looking at the going prices of these speakers respectively, I think I would not be able to make the deal without throwing in the 2235's. I really do not want to pony up any additional cash at this time considering the 10's may need a recone. Looking at what I have invested in the stuff I would trade, I know I would make out just fine. He also has a nice pair of Altec Malibu's that are in excellent condition especially considering they were made in 1964! Certainly wouldn't trade all my stuff for those but they are nice!

  4. #4
    norealtalent
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    IMO: Give him the 2235's if you have to. You can always get more. Take the 4341's and run like hell!!! Ask anybody whose had both side by each, they'll tell you the same...$.02 (Yes, I'm prejudice) It's like trading your 66 Mustang convertible for a 65 Shelby Fastback. While the similarities are obvious, the investment possibilities are exponential. There are alot more 4430's around than 4341's were built.

  5. #5
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oznob
    Looking at the going prices of these speakers respectively, I think I would not be able to make the deal without throwing in the 2235's.
    Agreed...

    Quote Originally Posted by norealtalent
    Ask anybody whose had both side by each, they'll tell you the same...
    I'm not sure that's the case... I'd likely go with the 4341s... I'd also update them to 4344s, but do so in a manner that was reversible for the collector market.


    Widget

  6. #6
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    I'd try to work out a 30-day "audition" period to listen to them side-by-side for enough time to decide which I liked better.

    There's several "shootouts" already documented in these forums. 434x is preferred over 443x only by 434x owners, whatever that means.

    If 2344(A) horns are the only problem with your 4430's, there's a potential answer for that. Watch for Guido's work with PT-H1010 in his new 4435's in the DIY forum, perhaps in just a matter of weeks....

  7. #7
    Senior Member oznob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    I'd try to work out a 30-day "audition" period to listen to them side-by-side for enough time to decide which I liked better.

    There's several "shootouts" already documented in these forums. 434x is preferred over 443x only by 434x owners, whatever that means.
    Hey Zilchster,

    I think I have lost the WAF battle! Even after planting four trees, built a retaining wall, which I screwed by the way, and countless battles over how she thinks they have no business being in our living room, I don't think I can take it anymore! I am cautiously optomistic she will warm up to the 4341's. I did show her pictures and her comment was "better?" Looks like I am meeting the seller on Tuesday to try and hammer out a deal. Either that or I will have to try and figure out how to fit the 4430's in the Dog House!

  8. #8
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Well, if it's URGENT, I can loan you the parts to "fix" the horns....

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    An interesting dilema,

    I like the 4341 appearance but they are a different kettle of fish and will require careful set up to get what you already get. Polished and give a charge coupled network the will shine.

    Off on a tangent, have you thought about removing the mass ring on the 2235 for the 4430s giving a 2234, equalising the botton end a bit and changing out or getting the DR82425 diaghragm aquaplas coated.

    Rob has tried acquaplas coated in his 2234's and he liked what it did.

    On technical grounds the 4430's would as soa as you are likely to get to current day without spending $1000's.

  10. #10
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    I'd try to work out a 30-day "audition" period to listen to them side-by-side for enough time to decide which I liked better.
    Always the best choice... sounds like it's not relevant in this case due to external factors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    There's several "shootouts" already documented in these forums. 434x is preferred over 443x only by 434x owners, whatever that means.
    I guess it means that those people made the right decision.

    The fact is that the 44XX series superseded the 43XX series... they should be better. In many ways they are demonstrably better... the fact that all these years later there is a large group that favor 43XX series monitors and another large group that favor the 44XX series just proves that the appreciation of loudspeakers is very subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    If 2344(A) horns are the only problem with your 4430's, there's a potential answer for that. Watch for Guido's work with PT-H1010 in his new 4435's in the DIY forum, perhaps in just a matter of weeks....
    I'll admit, I am not a particular fan of the 2344(A) horn, but I feel it is superior to most if not all of the JBL PA horns that have come out since. Again, a subjective call. Ideally we can all make these choices in our own listening rooms... but that isn't always possible.


    Widget

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Oh No,

    Not another comparison.

    And more colorful language...

  12. #12
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Oznob

    I will give this a whirl. I run 2344's on my DIY mains and 4344 in the same room. The 2344 set-up is active with a 2123 so it's almost the same configuration as the 4344 with crossover at almost the same point 1200 vs 1500. Not quite the same as 4430 vs 4341 but I can talk about differences on the top end. The 4344's are more extended and a bit cleaner up top. They also don't image the same and are much more directional, focused, so the sweet spot is a bit smaller. You can also hear the timbre changes much more readilly as you move around off axis and do a sit down stand up test. In the sweet spot they are really very nice indeed with lots of power detail and what seems like endless reserve. I don't know how you have your 4430's set-up. I have toe in on my 2344's and you will need to be able to move the 4341 arround a bit to get the best imaging from them. You also need a bit more distance for it all to gel. The 4344 top end needs a bit more care for proper set-up to get the most out of it.

    Rob

  13. #13
    Senior Member oznob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606
    Hello Oznob

    I will give this a whirl. I run 2344's on my DIY mains and 4344 in the same room. The 2344 set-up is active with a 2123 so it's almost the same configuration as the 4344 with crossover at almost the same point 1200 vs 1500. Not quite the same as 4430 vs 4341 but I can talk about differences on the top end. The 4344's are more extended and a bit cleaner up top. They also don't image the same and are much more directional, focused, so the sweet spot is a bit smaller. You can also hear the timbre changes much more readilly as you move around off axis and do a sit down stand up test. In the sweet spot they are really very nice indeed with lots of power detail and what seems like endless reserve. I don't know how you have your 4430's set-up. I have toe in on my 2344's and you will need to be able to move the 4341 arround a bit to get the best imaging from them. You also need a bit more distance for it all to gel. The 4344 top end needs a bit more care for proper set-up to get the most out of it.

    Rob
    Thanks for the heipful tips Rob. I am very limited in placement options. They will be 6' apart, max, with the primary listening position at 12'. They will be about 1' from the back wall, left speaker has a side wall 3' away, rt. speaker pretty open, 10' to the wall both flanking the entertainment center. I have the 4430's toed in slightly. I have 1.5" cone spikes on the 4430's which I would likely do with the 4341's. I think it helped getting them off the floor a bit and I have very thick carpet. The spikes really anchored them down!

    My main issue is, for now, I am hooked on the big monitors and this is the best option presented to me at this time that will hopefully meet the WAF. The seller lives easily within driving distance and is willing to work with me. I want these to be the last, best speakers I ever buy so tweaking them down the road will certainly be an option. I do see a time in the not to distant future however, where they may be too big. When that day comes, something like the XPL200's may be in order.

    I will know for sure tomorrow if this all happens. Again, thanks to everyone for their thoughts and opinions, I really appreciate it!

  14. #14
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I hope it goes well. I have my 4344 about 6-7 feet apart and am about 7-8ft away but can go back further and they sound fine. I have a open stair case behind them so in essence they are into the room about 4 ft. One other thing to consider is the 4430 on spikes gets you into the prime focus point for the horn in the vertical axis. With the 434X's and the 2405 it helps to have your ears on axis with the slot. You may want to consider short stands depending on your seated height.

    Have Fun!!!

    Rob

  15. #15
    Senior Member Michael Smith's Avatar
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    Are you sure this is really the situation?
    Or was it because you failed "Gardening/Retaining Wall 101"
    You may have to revisit.
    On the other hand, shit I could easily put up with either,you are just plain lucky I don't live around the corner cos I'd a letter box drop on Maggies, then they would all be mine!
    Regards
    Michael

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