Venting Voice coils

[Guido]

Glad to see you back on topic.
Question was how to ventilate a VC.
Question was not how to ventilate Dust Caps or how Tannoy, Altec or TAD did it.

Sorry, couldn't resist

[Maron Horonzakz]

And to ventilate that voice coil bobbin you dont use a punch to make the holes. You replace the the entire VC & bobbin. Ive done several of those.

[edgewound]

Jaybird,

I'm truly sorry that your simple question turned into a ridiculous salvo thanks to a member...who seems to have an axe to grind, which is a complete out-of-left field mystery.

Thanks to Rob for steering us back on topic.

Thanks Guido for your supporting comments.

Next time someone has an alternate solution to a question, make sure you understand the question, please just offer your solution, why it might be better, or works for you better.

Thank you,

[DRG]

The following question is an open invitation for other forum members to present their ideas.

For you reconers That ocasionally have to use aftermarket voice coils, what is the best way you have found to vent them?

It seems the very basic rules for this particular forum have been forgotten. Here's a reminder:

[Maron Horonzakz]

Yes I too believe Edgewound should follow those rules.

[edgewound]

Yes I too believe Edgewound should follow those rules.

Newton's Third Law should also be taken into consideration when posting.

[moldyoldy]

I've encountered punched VC formers in applications with no apparent means of external venting (i.e. Altec 418B), and assumed the punching was done to reduce moving mass in that application. Any thoughts?

[edgewound]

That sounds like a valid concept to reduce mass....and it would also allow more air to circulate around both sides of the voice coil, to be expelled, albeit rather restrictively,through the spider and to the aluminum frame.

[jaybird]

Gentlemen!! Your keyboard jousting has brought forth some interesting tidbits on the design ,but how much will it effect the performance of say a K120 in a guitar amp or a stage monitor without the venting? I would still prefer to use factory replacement parts but financial constraints restrict there use for some.
Jaybird

[moldyoldy]

Jaybird,
As a non-Pro, limited resource, fellow tinkerer, I'll add a bit from my experience from experimenting for personal use.

Anything you change from design WILL change performance, whether good or bad depends on the changes and the application. I once got a deal on some well-built, non-punched, kapton AM 3" VCs that I experimented with in some Altec MI 15s (418, 421). I was able to salvage a few of the original VCs intact (real PITA) for comparison purposes. The kaptons weighed nearly twice the originals, but, other than former thickness, were dimensionally the same. Since kapton formers with modern adhesives are way more tolerant of heat than the originals, I suspect the breakdown temp would equal or exceed a non-kapton, vented VC (unverified). The extra weight entails a loss of efficiency, at least theoretically. In AlNiCo apps under high power, early compression can rear its' head with extra heat.

For guitar/bass amps, I like 'em, though no more than the originals, but they do sound a little different, which is fine in an application where coloration is a matter of preference. Sorry, but my vocabulary lacks the words to express how they're different in a way that you would know exactly what I mean.

For monitors though, I'd stick with the originals, unless you're prepared to do lots of experimenting, or are willing to live with a colored sound.

(Edit) Experimenting requires LOTS of spare parts, an investment that quickly exceeds the price of OEM parts or a Pro recone. Truth is, I spent way more $ in the long run with my DIY tinkering, even though I learned a lot and enjoyed doing it.

[edgewound]

Jaybird,
As a non-Pro, limited resource, fellow tinkerer, I'll add a bit from my experience from experimenting for personal use.

Anything you change from design WILL change performance, whether good or bad depends on the changes and the application. I once got a deal on some well-built, non-punched, kapton AM 3" VCs that I experimented with in some Altec MI 15s (418, 421). I was able to salvage a few of the original VCs intact (real PITA) for comparison purposes. The kaptons weighed nearly twice the originals, but, other than former thickness, were dimensionally the same. Since kapton formers with modern adhesives are way more tolerant of heat than the originals, I suspect the breakdown temp would equal or exceed a non-kapton, vented VC (unverified). The extra weight entails a loss of efficiency, at least theoretically. In AlNiCo apps under high power, early compression can rear its' head with extra heat.

For guitar/bass amps, I like 'em, though no more than the originals, but they do sound a little different, which is fine in an application where coloration is a matter of preference. Sorry, but my vocabulary lacks the words to express how they're different in a way that you would know exactly what I mean.

For monitors though, I'd stick with the originals, unless you're prepared to do lots of experimenting, or are willing to live with a colored sound.

(Edit) Experimenting requires LOTS of spare parts, an investment that quickly exceeds the price of OEM parts or a Pro recone. Truth is, I spent way more $ in the long run with my DIY tinkering, even though I learned a lot and enjoyed doing it.

Hey Jay,

Moldy's got some good points.

As a guitar player, myself... I find differences in the response of the speaker itself are enormous. Changes in tactile feel and/or hi frequency response can either make or break my playing experience. With a D/K/E 120. e.g., the difference between the aluminum wire OEM coil and a copper after market is almost a whole octave!!! Copper goes to about 3-4Khz...aluminum goes to about 6-7Khz...BIG difference. Add to that the difference in coil mass between materials and that contributes alot to the freq response, transient response and overall sound and feel of the whole speaker-amp-guitar-player system. Put in variances in OEM vs. aftermarket cones and the scene just gets uglier. I've been an active guitar player for 30+ years (have a gig tomorrow) and a reconer since 1988...so I have a perspective that most reconers don't have....I actually use the stuff, and know the differences through my hands and ears. The difference really has to be felt for you to really get it. When you do....you'll never want to go back.

Here's a useful tool for punching holes in VC formers:

[analogman]

Well Scotty...for some unknown reason... Mr. Maron has decided to turn this into a war, with his unfounded "stupid" remark....that he so conveniently deleted...and then his last quoted comment. Maybe he could explain the need to be a jerk...or maybe he can't explain and it just comes naturally. Some people can't help themselves...I'll say a prayer for him.

There's a REAL NEED for guys like you at:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/

When you get there, ask for Allan Songer, tell him Analogman sent you. I think the two of you will make a great team, maybe more.

[analogman]

Hey Jay,

Moldy's got some good points.

As a guitar player, myself... I find differences in the response of the speaker itself are enormous. Changes in tactile feel and/or hi frequency response can either make or break my playing experience. With a D/K/E 120. e.g., the difference between the aluminum wire OEM coil and a copper after market is almost a whole octave!!! Copper goes to about 3-4Khz...aluminum goes to about 6-7Khz...BIG difference. Add to that the difference in coil mass between materials and that contributes alot to the freq response, transient response and overall sound and feel of the whole speaker-amp-guitar-player system. Put in variances in OEM vs. aftermarket cones and the scene just gets uglier. I've been an active guitar player for 30+ years (have a gig tomorrow) and a reconer since 1988...so I have a perspective that most reconers don't have....I actually use the stuff, and know the differences through my hands and ears. The difference really has to be felt for you to really get it. When you do....you'll never want to go back.

Here's a useful tool for punching holes in VC formers:

Consistently inconsistent
Make up your mind, or does it just feel too good to hear yourself babble?

[moldyoldy]

Jay,

The punch Edge pictured can be improved for this specific appl., by filing the brass face of the female die into a radius to match the inner radius of the former. Be careful around the hole to avoid the cutting edge.

A-man,

Pro reconers have an obligation to each other to protect their industry by not selling parts or divulging too much info to us cheapskate DIYers, and the patent response is "No, it won't work, don't do it". The fact that we get any help at all should appreciated. Get used to it, that's the way it is.

[Maron Horonzakz]

Anal man ....Your mouth is writeing checks your ass cant cash.