Large monitor advice

[Mr. Widget]

The most important issue is to have the horn and slot at ear height...

Absolutely! I find slightly above is OK too.


Widget

[yggdrasil]

Is it necessary that a smith horn spread the full 130 degrees. How would 65 degrees vertically work?

Changing from 130 to 65 degrees would double the length of the horn though.

Increasing the height would shorten the horn.... E.g. at 90 degrees spread and 2" height the horn length is approximately the same.

[Tom Loizeaux]

... One thing that might be interesting but very radical is to orientate the 2397 vertically not unlike G.T 's new Array Series and see what happens.....

I suspect that you would be required to sit in a chair, placed exactly in the center and not move your head away from dead center.

Tom

[Tom Loizeaux]

Ian,
My comment was based on my 4343s, which use the 2307 horns w/ the 2308 lenses. I can move my head around a little, but if I stand up and step left or right the sound stage shifts dramatically. It still sounds great, but the imaging is lost. Though I haven't heard the vertical horn setup, I suspect it woud be even more critical in terms of centering.

Tom

[hapy._.face]

John,

I am going for independant enclosures on each driver. I discovered quick that the 2245 requires a cabinet that puts a vertical stack concept too high above the listening point. I guess you could point your mids and tweeters down...but...

I'm using 2235's which sound great and require less volume. Sure, they don't go quite as low as a 2245 (on paper) but they sure do slam and are very musical to my ears. Using 2235's allows me to just squeeze in the 2397 and 2405 at listening height.

Every little bit helps. Even the 2202 (12") swap for a 2122 (10") gets it down a bit lower. A 2235 with a doghouse for the 2122 slightly off axis, and squeezed close (verically), will buy you some room to play with as well.

Smith horn on top of the cabinet. Period. I don't care what anyone says- that's the way to do it IMO. I put the lip of my 2397 flush with the front of my cabinet and elevate it on high density acoustic foam about 2 inches. This elimates almost all the deflections. I used to be hell bent on building a rounded baffle to the curve of the 2397- but I feel it's overkill. It does just fine if properly placed on the cabinet. Now imagine, if you will a smallish enclosure for the 2122. Now imagine putting a 2397 smith on top of that. deflections? WHAT DEFLECTIONS!? That's the reason I'm going this route.

AND- 2405 on top of the smith. period. That's the ultimate way to do it if you can. Thanks to the super Widget for turning me on to the vintage Fostex design- I'm in love with the concept. That's my goal. I want to get my system low enough to build something in that realm- but better. For reference:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/a...1&d=1111622906

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/a...1&d=1111622950


cheers,
Travis

[Ian Mackenzie]

Travis,

Not sure what you are saying here.

The 4345 has its horn and slot at ideal arm chair height. If your seated height is for whatever reason very low I would understand.

I imagine the 2397 would fit right in there just swell and that is exactly how I did my previous 2397 arrangement (per the above image)

Perhaps I am missing something? Each to his own of course.

Ian

[hapy._.face]

Oops - the link got truncated and is not valid ...
The comments sound interesting - can you repost the link?

Hi Heather,

I updated the links- try again. Thanks for catching that.

[hapy._.face]

The 4345 has its horn and slot at ideal arm chair height.

Yes, thanks to a cabinet design which allows the horn to sit nearly beside the 2122 subenclosure. The tweeter gets room for optimal placement too. I think the 4345 is a great design. However, if I were to stack each driver in it's own box(my project) and put them in a vertical array- you'd need a barstool for critical listening...hey maybe I should rethink this...barstools.hey?..

If your seated height is for whatever reason very low I would understand.

Hey, are you calling me a creepy crawlie? Since you commented- I am in to the mod furniture so most of it is scaled down very low to the ground. My listening chair is more of a chaise lounge- that's a must have in my room.

I imagine the 2397 would fit right in there just swell and that is exactly how I did my previous 2397 arrangement (per the above image)

Yep. It looks really cool, too!

[John W]

This is a great discussion, and I hope it keeps going, but after considering the information presented here and reading a couple other threads, I've basically made up my mind to build a 4345 copy. I’m only a couple parts shy.
The smith horn project is intriguing but its fairly close to something I already have. Sticking with JBL engineering in the layout and crossover won’t leave me listening to the finished speakers wondering if, and where I compromised the sound.

[hapy._.face]

No doubt the 4345 has major influence on this forum. As such- I was going to do that too at first. Then I remembered I didn't have a marketing department and I thought I would just shoot for something that involves the 2397. I can't live without it- don't know how I'll ever live without one. I'm using JBL engineering as well; JBL designed each and every driver in my project.

[John W]

Speaking of marketing, it may be a while before I start setting aside drivers for one of these:

[Chas]

This is a great discussion, and I hope it keeps going, but after considering the information presented here and reading a couple other threads, I've basically made up my mind to build a 4345 copy. I’m only a couple parts shy.
The smith horn project is intriguing but its fairly close to something I already have. Sticking with JBL engineering in the layout and crossover won’t leave me listening to the finished speakers wondering if, and where I compromised the sound.

A Smith type horn based system is definitely intriguing, but a bear to implement and integrate, I have run into similar issues. Widget's old Westlake/4355 hybrid was about as elegant a solution as I have seen, but it sure ate up a lot of floor space. But I see he has since moved on...

I have been having a lot of fun with my S-22-2's (in sealed 5 cu. ft. boxes with medium fill) triamped to four 2235H's and a pair of SUB 1500's. Want BIG MONITOR sound? This will effortlessly do it for you.

The jury is out though, on overall sound quality. That is until the 4345's are up and running as a reference. And hey, I'm still waiting for the jacket and fruit basket too..........

[Robh3606]

The smith horn project is intriguing but its fairly close to something I already have. Sticking with JBL engineering in the layout and crossover won’t leave me listening to the finished speakers wondering if, and where I compromised the sound.

Hello John

Yes start with a know system and then change it if you are not happy. You could spends months messing around with a DIY with no baseline system and never get it right. Looks like a good choice to me. I have 4344 clones and they are great. Have Fun

Rob

[Mr. Widget]

This is a great discussion, and I hope it keeps going, but after considering the information presented here and reading a couple other threads, I've basically made up my mind to build a 4345 copy. I’m only a couple parts shy.

I think that is a wise decision. I do think it is possible to better that system... but the likelihood of stepping backwards is much greater... to produce a one-off that is better than a stock 4345 while using most of the same components would certainly require months of experimenting... and there is no guarantee you'd get there. The 4345 is a fine system and no doubt you'll do an exquisite job building a pair.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well that as the whole point of my somewhat long post.