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Thread: Large monitor advice

  1. #1
    Senior Member John W's Avatar
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    Large monitor advice

    I just purchased a set of drivers and need some advice on building a pair of large monitors.

    The list of drivers is:
    2245H 18” woofer
    2202H 12” midbase
    2445J 2” compression driver
    2405H tweeter

    All the drivers are in good shape. I need to replace the foam on the 2245H, and I’m pretty sure the diaphragms on the 2445J are titanium, not sure if that is original on this driver.
    I placed the 2202H drivers in my 120Tis for a quick try out and I really liked their impact on kick drums and the like.
    Here is the question:
    Should I piece together the remaining parts of a 4344 and build one of these, or put together a 4344/4350 hybrid using the 18” woofer, larger midbase and 2445 mated to a smith horn? A stock 4350 would be too large.
    Either way the bottom end would be bi-amped.

  2. #2
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I would drop the 2202/2445/2405 in a seperate sub enclosure and use the 4355 crossover with it as a starter. The 18 is going to need a large cabinet to get the most out of it. If a stock 4350 is too large I would look seriously about box size on the 18". You may find it's to big a box as well. Especially if you incorporate the other drivers in the 18's enclosure.

    Rob

  3. #3
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John W
    I just purchased a set of drivers and need some advice on building a pair of large monitors...

    I placed the 2202H drivers in my 120Tis for a quick try out and I really liked their impact on kick drums and the like.
    I agree 100%... the 2202 has the ability to give you the attack of a drum like few other speakers... especially at high SPLs... however I found that after awhile that wasn't enough for me. I felt they were a bit veiled and didn't offer the resolution I was after.

    If you just want another project, I'd say follow Rob's advice and build a pair of 4355s... substituting the single 2245 for the pair of 2235s... same volume require and all... but if you want a speaker that is about as good as vintage JBL gets, I'd swop the 2202s for a pair of 2122s, use the 3145 networks, and I would also swap out the Ti diaphragms in the 2445s for a pair of 2441 AL diaphragms. Next is the horn choice... you've shown us you can do it, I'd say build a beautiful pair of wood 2397s and place it on top... or stay with the standard JBL 43XX horn/lens combo... the key will be getting the networks right and dialing them in... once you've done that you will really have something.

    The shape of the cabs can be horizontal, vertical or maybe a scaled up version of your walnut babies... I expect to see some outstanding speakers from you sometime next week.


    Widget

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Simple,

    Measure the height of yours ears when seated at your normal listening position from the floor. Your ears should line up with the tweeter / horn vertically . Whether you choose Lowboy or normal 4344 driver lay out will be dicated by that.

    Most feedback suggests the imaging of the stock 4350 was not the greatest. The 4344 will image well if you do it right but the above caveat applies.

    Some members will also sway you to consider other horn types ie 800 hz 2397/ 1200 hz 2397 junior/ Edgar salad bowl.

    Hope this helps, I spent 6 months deciding how big my 2245 woofer boxes in my first attempt so I know what it's like. I am on my 5th attempt (slow learner and I've nearly got it right!)

    Clockwise, playing around triamping all my junk in 1996. My quasi 4345 with 2397 horn built 1998..nice loud stage monitor!, quasi 4430 with eight inch cone mid built 2002 (very good loudspeaker... leaves the 4430 for dead!) , clone 4345 built 2004 (excellent loudspeaker). My original 4343 since re painted (fantastic loudspeaker) ... original built 1979.

    I confess the JBL original designs tend to work best but being a diy speaker nut and a nut in general..I could not help myself back in my audio youth (no harm in trying but tends to be a waste of time)

    John, talk to Rick, he recent built similar designs to yours and has a wealth of experience.

    Ian
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    For comparion, the JBL studio series family.
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    Senior Member John W's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone, good advice all around. I am still a couple months out on this project, just doing a little planning. I appreciate the pictures of your old projects Ian, these are the kind of things I had kicking around in my mind.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Very interesting set of drivers. I have almost the same in my 4-ways. 2245H/2202/LE85/077.

    With the 2445 I would go for a horn that makes it possible to crossover lower than 1.2KHz, probably at 800Hz.
    Johnny Haugen Sørgård

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    Senior Member northwood's Avatar
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    The pics are very nice

    Please show us the bigger one
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    A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enought to take away everything from you

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    great advice...

    John,

    I would say that unless you plan to model a studio monitor to the last detail- you might as well go full bore with a custom design. That means you might as well hand pick the drivers. You have some great ones already! The Widget is dead on in advising the 2202 swap out for the 2122.

    Perhaps we could share some ideas as I have almost the same drivers and I am firing up the router this weekend.
    I don't think I'm too far from you either.

  10. #10
    Senior Member John W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hapy._.face
    John,
    I have almost the same drivers and I am firing up the router this weekend.
    I don't think I'm too far from you either.
    I'd love to see and hear about what you have in the works.
    Do I read it right thay you are in Maryland? I'm in the other Washington, the great northwest.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by John W
    I'd love to see and hear about what you have in the works.
    Do I read it right thay you are in Maryland? I'm in the other Washington, the great northwest.
    Oh man- I am off!!

    I glanced at your avatar and thought your were in VA. oops! Oh well- the internet makes us nearby (relatively typing.)

    I'd still love to share some ideas with you- perhaps between the two of us....

  12. #12
    Senior Member John W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hapy._.face
    I'd still love to share some ideas with you- perhaps between the two of us....
    You got it.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northwood
    Please show us the bigger one
    Let me work out how to make panorarma photo for my Nikon and I will email you hi res picture.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606
    I would drop the 2202/2445/2405 in a seperate sub enclosure and use the 4355 crossover with it as a starter. The 18 is going to need a large cabinet to get the most out of it. If a stock 4350 is too large I would look seriously about box size on the 18". You may find it's to big a box as well. Especially if you incorporate the other drivers in the 18's enclosure.

    Rob
    There in lay the problem my friend.

    If the 2245 is in a seperate enclosure it will be a lowboy under the mid/hf/uhf ad they may not suits John's floor plan. At 250-300 crossover point the woofer must be in the same plane as the midrange driver which to my mind always sounds better under the horn. The foot print of the suitable vertical array will be in the order of 28 x 18.

    The most important issue is to have the horn and slot at ear height or you will crash and burn badly. It will just not work for you otherwise. Even the 2397 beams a fair bit vertically, hence I carefully located the 2397 vertically in terms of height in the above diy design.

    One thing that might be interesting but very radical is to orientate the 2397 vertically not unlike G.T 's new Array Series and see what happens.....

  15. #15
    Senior Member John W's Avatar
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    Ian, you are making a lot of sense. I am not sure I'm ready to implement a full vertical smith horn though. Is it necessary that a smith horn spread the full 130 degrees. How would 65 degrees vertically work?

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