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Thread: "Coloration" of horns

  1. #16
    pangea
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    OK and they fit just like that?

    By the way, what should I be looking out for if I come a cross a pair? Any pit falls?

    BR
    Roland

  2. #17
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    They fit like that!

    Originally posted by pangea
    OK and they fit just like that?

    By the way, what should I be looking out for if I come a cross a pair? Any pit falls?

    BR
    Roland
    Yes the 41 phragm fits perfectly inside the 40 driver!

    Look for drivers that havent had a hard life, look good cosmetically. I mean if you see a picture of a driver thats all dented, stay away as it may have been dropped and thats not a good thing for the magnet or the gap. If they have come from a touring company you know they were used hard. But if you can find a pair from a recording studio or something they lived an easier life.

    As for sellers of compression drivers, as long as they are packed properly for shipment they should arrive fine! But if they are not properly packed they can be damaged during shipping, and this has happened. Improper packing and throats can crack, etc.

    They are out there and many are good. Most people are honest about what they are selling. Some tell stories, but most people are good, at least in all my buying experiences.

  3. #18
    pangea
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    Thanks I appreciate your input!

    BR
    Roland

  4. #19
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pangea
    I would think the 2405 can't add all that much, or can it!?


    And, do go for Aluminum if you are inclined to replace those diphragms...
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  5. #20
    pangea
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    Hmmm...

    Would it be OK or even an improvement to put the 41 dia in to my 2445J?

    I was thinking also, if the alus are better than titans, are they also better than beryllium as well???

    BR
    Roland

  6. #21
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    hmm

    well, if the 45 diaphragm fits in a 40-41 I would think the 41 phragm will also fit in a 45 assembly! Not sure what youll get sonically, thats one I havent done. For sure, I like the sound of drivers with Alnico and Neodymium magnets over Ferrite ones.

    Aluminum sounds really good. Beryllium is even better, but its hellaciously expensive, and JBL never made a beryllium diaphragm for the drivers your talking about.

    TAD has been doing beryllium for years, and they are clean sounding, and have great transient response, but MAJOR $$$$$.

    You put the 2441 phragm in your 40 driver, and as long as you have a proper horn, proper crossover point, and the right power, youll really like what you hear!

  7. #22
    pangea
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    hmmm...

    I do too like the Alnico, but I got scared when so many were talking about Alnicos loosing magnetism over the years and since they're not even from yesterday, I thought I'll play it safe. Perhaps I was wrong.

    Regarding Beryllium I thought they're closer to titanium than Aluminum and therefor should be closer sonically, but hey I'm no expert on metals.

    Regarding Neodymium, I'm getting mixed signals, some say they are better, some say they sound harsh, so I wount be able to tell the differenc until I can make an A/B test, will I.

    BR
    Roland

  8. #23
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    well

    beryllium has the highest stiffness to weight ratio, and because its so rigid yet so light, it makes very clean, very transparent sound!

    Alnicos last and unless they have really overdriven they are usually good. And even if you do get Alnico drivers, the magnets can be recharged by JBL, or any speaker company that has the machine to charge magnets!

    Neodymiums do not sound harsh, rather I find ferrite magnet compression drivers to be somewhat harsh sounding. Personally, I find neodymium magnet drivers to be a bit softer sounding than either ferrite or Alnico, and with digital sources at high playback levels, I sometimes find this to be prefferable. My all time favorite is Alnico. However, I have and am using TAD 4002 neodymium drivers with beryillium diaphragms and they sound beautiful!

    But I also have JBL 2441,s and will always like them too!

  9. #24
    pangea
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    Re: well

    Originally posted by scott fitlin
    beryllium has the highest stiffness to weight ratio, and because its so rigid yet so light, it makes very clean, very transparent sound!

    Alnicos last and unless they have really overdriven they are usually good. And even if you do get Alnico drivers, the magnets can be recharged by JBL, or any speaker company that has the machine to charge magnets!

    Neodymiums do not sound harsh, rather I find ferrite magnet compression drivers to be somewhat harsh sounding. Personally, I find neodymium magnet drivers to be a bit softer sounding than either ferrite or Alnico, and with digital sources at high playback levels, I sometimes find this to be prefferable. My all time favorite is Alnico. However, I have and am using TAD 4002 neodymium drivers with beryillium diaphragms and they sound beautiful!

    But I also have JBL 2441,s and will always like them too!

    Yes, but isn't Titanium the second best metal, with properties much closer to Beryllium than Aluminum and therefore, shouldn't Tatanium's be closer in all aspects? Just wondering.

    Good to know they can be re-charged! But how does one know when to do this?

    BR Roland

  10. #25
    Alex Lancaster
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    Smile

    Actually, Aluminum has the highest stiffness to weight ratio; Ti and Be, (depending if they are alloyed, in the 3 cases), have a higher strength to weight ratio, and Al-Be can be the strongest.

    Alex.

  11. #26
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    I always thought......

    well, regardless, both Aluminum and beryllium make great sounding diaphragms!

    For the record, I dont care for the way Titanium diaphragms sound. Of course it is a matter of user preferance.

    Most seem to agree Aluminum sounds better than Titanium.

  12. #27
    pangea
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    Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
    Actually, Aluminum has the highest stiffness to weight ratio; Ti and Be, (depending if they are alloyed, in the 3 cases), have a higher strength to weight ratio, and Al-Be can be the strongest.

    Alex.

    Thanks for the lesson! This I didn't know.

    BR
    Roland

  13. #28
    pangea
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    Re: I always thought......

    Originally posted by scott fitlin
    well, regardless, both Aluminum and beryllium make great sounding diaphragms!

    For the record, I dont care for the way Titanium diaphragms sound. Of course it is a matter of user preferance.

    Most seem to agree Aluminum sounds better than Titanium.
    Could it be that preferences vary between Sweden and the US, just like the Japanees have their own preferences, different from anyone elses. I may ofcourse be wrong here, but it is my impression most people here seem to prefer Titanium.

    BR
    Roland

  14. #29
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Is it possible?

    I dont know anymore what is and isnt possible!

    It is possible that some prefer the " Bite " from 2445,s with their Titanium diaphragm.

    Its also possible you may have never heard a " properly " set up 2441 with aluminum diaphragm! do not take offense to this statement, but you would be surprised at how many people never heard certain things, and dont like them because they are old, or from things they have been told about them as well! If you talk to sound people and companies selling sound gear, of course they will tell you "Oh those old alnicos with aluminum phragms. No one uses that anymore!" They want to sell you what they have to sell. No one uses the old stuff, that doesnt have it, because they cant get it. Or have to scour the used market.

    As for Beryllium, well, they really do sound terrific, and my TAD drivers are among the most fatigue free I have ever heard! But, units that use Beryllium are hellaciously expensive, and not many consumer grade speakers use beryllium diaphragms! The French company JM Labs is now featuring a beryllium diaphragm in their flagship speaker model.

    Personally I dont care for the 2445 or the 2446, and would not have used these in the first place.
    Last edited by scott fitlin; 11-02-2003 at 02:44 PM.

  15. #30
    pangea
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    Re: Is it possible?

    Originally posted by scott fitlin
    I dont know anymore what is and isnt possible!

    It is possible that some prefer the " Bite " from 2445,s with their Titanium diaphragm.

    Its also possible you may have never heard a " properly " set up 2441 with aluminum diaphragm! do not take offense to this statement, but you would be surprised at how many people never heard certain things, and dont like them because they are old, or from things they have been told about them as well! If you talk to sound people and companies selling sound gear, of course they will tell you "Oh those old alnicos with aluminum phragms. No one uses that anymore!" They want to sell you what they have to sell. No one uses the old stuff, that doesnt have it, because they cant get it. Or have to scour the used market.

    As for Beryllium, well, they really do sound terrific, and my TAD drivers are among the most fatigue free I have ever heard! But, units that use Beryllium are hellaciously expensive, and not many consumer grade speakers use beryllium diaphragms! The French company JM Labs is now featuring a beryllium diaphragm in their flagship speaker model.

    Personally I dont care for the 2445 or the 2446, and would not have used these in the first place.
    A close friend of mine has a pair of 2440, which he says sound better than the 2441, due to stronger magnet. He uses the 2445 diaphragms without the radial ribs, which he says are a big no no (Something with the ribs). The same ribs that are on the diaphragms in the neodymium 2451 by the way.

    In my personal oppinion, I think his 2440's sound great by the way.

    I don't think I have listened to any Be phragms yet, so I have to go with what others are saying.

    For the time being I have no choice but to use the 2445's until I can find a pair of 2440 in good condition.

    BR
    Roland

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