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Thread: SACD - Discussion Thread

  1. #46
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Rudy, I feel your effort deserves a response, but you have obviously missed the point, and to explain it would be just to perpetuate a fiasco, so let me say, the whole thing is in the past hopefully; just let it be.

    On the other hand, if you want to have a debate about copyright laws and various industry practices, try starting a thread in the Non Audio Forum. You'd probably get lots of takers.


    David

  2. #47
    Senior Member Rudy Kleimann's Avatar
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    LEt a sleeping dog lie...

    No, no. Don't want to stir up the natives-

    This was the first thread I read in a couple of days, and was taken aback by the turn the thread had taken and felt the need to respond. But then, I read a couple other threads tonight involving out-of-control egos and the martyrs laying bleeding in the streets.
    I want none of that. Is it a full moon?

    I've been out of touch with the State of the art in Digital Audio, and am similarly naiive to the technical details and differences of DVD-A, SACD, differing datastreams available, and the use of outboard D/A convertors with these variants.

    I need to get educated on it, as it appears my faithful performer, a Proceed PCD-2, is on the fritz. I called Harmon/Levinson about factory service, and they informed me that they will only accept it for repair if I pre-authorize a limit of -get this- $950!!! The unit retailed for $2200, and I bought it new for $1800 when the PCD-3 came out in late 1993. I couldn't friggin' believe it! I asked the factory service person if he were certain, considering that the player is 12 years old, and he seemed offended by my doubting his accuracy. Somebody (many) said Harmon sucks...

    Any suggestions for a reputable service alternative? I have about 1500 CD's in my collection, and the player, although old, is still a fine-sounding player on CD format. My neighbors' 3-yr old Sony SCD-C555ES SACD player didn't even come close on CD Audio (although SACD discs were better than what my Proceed could muster).

  3. #48
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    I don't know a lot of CD players, but I will say that 13 years is not a bad run. It's nice when this stuff lasts forever, but sometimes it doesn't.

    I loved my Philips SACD1000, but it died in 18 months and is not repairable; you may have heard of that particular case of corporate malfeasance. I'm now listening to a Denon 5900, which is pretty MOR. It's OK on audio, very nice for DVD. The Philips had an output section that could handle playing straight into a power amp with input level controls. The Denon can't do that, and I have not yet fully explored all the elements in that system to find out what the optimum setup for the Denon is. It is quite listenable, but does not give you that spooky thrill of realism that the Philips would lay on you now and then. In the next couple of years I will be shopping for an audio-specific player.

    David

  4. #49
    Senior Member Rudy Kleimann's Avatar
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    Angry I know... but a $950 pre-authorization to find out?

    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave
    I don't know a lot of CD players, but I will say that 13 years is not a bad run. It's nice when this stuff lasts forever, but sometimes it doesn't.

    I loved my Philips SACD1000, but it died in 18 months and is not repairable; you may have heard of that particular case of corporate malfeasance. David
    You're right, but the player has XLR analog outputs that drives my system (and us), to the point of audio ecstasy with ease. Especially with a friends' Krell amp with balanced inputs in the audio chain. Hauled around to many a friends' place for a showdown, and it always came out on top. At home, it took on all comers as well. All in all, in a "CD only" audio performance comparison, it met with a couple of equals, but never was downright beaten -even "by decision". I was truly pleased that I broke down and bought it Brand-new instead of my typical 2-3 year old second-hand. And, although DVD-A and SACD can clearly outperform this units' best efforts, the hardware for these formats have been in a constant state of flux. The few units I have tried seem to have been too much of a mixed bag in performance to win me over enough to part with the cash.

    I don't think my player is really badly hurt- it started breaking into a loud, "white noise" tantrum after being on for a while, and I put it away for a year or two while listening to other toys in the house. Recently, I pulled it out, and tried it again. After a couple of misloads and trouble initializing on the Table of contents, everything went well -for about an hour. After that it started acting up again, only this time it would fall silent. Maybe the laser? Maybe the analog circuits? Maybe the DAC? :dont-know

    Not sure I follow you about the Philips. What do you mean? Did they stop making it, or was it a POS mechanically?

  5. #50
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Rudy, if your player was that good it is unlikely that $950 invested on any other player will be as good. Maybe you should just bite the bullet and get it fixed.


    Widget

  6. #51
    Senior Member Rudy Kleimann's Avatar
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    Question Try, try again?

    I hear you, Widget. But an "open check" for $950 + shipping both ways at Harmon/Proceed is more than a little unnerving. It may well not run that much, but who knows? I'd like to find a reputable firm that would give it a good troubleshoot and firm repair price for a reasonable fee if I refuse the repair. Any qualified referrals would be appreciated.

    Even better, a good DVD-A and SACD player with CD performance that equals or surpasses this one at a fair price. Mind you, I did spend $1800 in '93, so I'm not cheap. But, in my past experiments, the players I did try out had shortcomings of one kind or another, and I ended up passing on them. Granted the new audio formats sounded great, but it seemed that the manufacturers were willing (or intended) to have mediocre to good (but not great) CD Audio performance in their new multi-format machines. And the incompatibility issues between SACD and DVD-Audio hardware left me a little irritated. I can't justify replacing my entire CD collection with new discs in the data format of my choice as they become available (and at great cost). How long before my next investment becomes an abandoned format?

    Used to be, it was simple: 16 bit 44.1KHz stereo was it. The first major change in audio playback since the vinyl stereo LP. Lots of benefits to CD's: small, easy, 50-100 year life span with minimal effort and care.

    Now you have to compare CD, SACD, DVD-A, 24/96, 2Ch, 5.1Ch, and DVD video performance all in the same machine during auditions. Add to that the different bitstream outputs, different methods of data translation for decoding the various other formats, etc. (ad nauseum).

    Maybe it's time to give it another try :dont-know. I've got a lot of studying to do to understand my options and the current SOTA. Any recommendations at $1K?

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