Amplifier for L200A

[artsound]

Dear all,

I used to have some experience with L100 before. It is very diffirent to match with her. Got deep bass => noisy treble. Got smooth treble => not enough bass.

Now, I have changed to L200A, it is very huge and perfect loundspeaker. And I am considering about amplifier. I can build tube amplifier (DIY), so, could you, JBL lover, commend what kind of tube I shoud use? EL34? 300B? SE? PP? Or could you show me the way you passed when using L200A? Your feeling, your tips and tweaks...

Thanks for your attention and Very looking for your response,

Regards,

AS

[speakerdave]

Hello, Artsound

Welcome to the forum!

Here is a copy of the brochure JBL published regarding that speaker:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/.../1973-l200.htm

You will see that it recommends amplifier power between 10 and 150 watts. The choice would depend upon your listening habits--how loud, would be the primary question. I listen to a large 3-way JBL with a 60 wpc tube power amp which I choose because I like the sound, but it is definitely not enough power to make use of the full capabilities of the speakers. But most of the time it is entirely adequate. So, for me, of the amps you list, a P-P EL34 would be the minimum. In the other hand your preferences may be more along the lines of the refinement many choose in the smaller tube amps.

Congratulations on aquiring a pair of classic JBL large speakers.

David

[artsound]

Many thanks David,

I think I should try some PSE like a GM70 or 211 or 845. But it is really hard to build by myself

But L200A is the best sound I've ever heard before. Give me all feeling from Vivaldi to Louis Amstrongs, even folk songs.

[Mr. Widget]

But L200A is the best sound I've ever heard before. Give me all feeling from Vivaldi to Louis Amstrongs, even folk songs.

What amp are you currently using?

Some of us, myself included, really like the L200, but wish it had a little deeper bass, more extended highs, and even a little smoother midrange. That said, I am glad you have found a speaker you like so much. I remember hearing them for the first time and falling in love with them too.


Widget

[markd51]

Widget, basically, it sounds like then, that the L-200 falls short in many areas? I wasn't aware of this.
What was the high frequency extension in Hz of the L-200's Horn Driver?

I recently made a comment to a person I know who owns a pair of KEF 104.2's that I believed the L-200 should be able to stomp his KEF's. He told me "only when pigs fly"!

While this particluar KEF he has may be able to go slightly deeper than the L-200 (With it's Kube), I'm wondering if in fact what he says is true, and that the KEF actually stomps the L-200 instead? (Sounds like he's a JBL Hater, and I'm a KEF hater, doesn't it? lol)

You mention not that smooth of a midrange? What, if anything can be done to alleviate this shortcoming as you say?

I've heard these KEF's, they are a nice speaker, and perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges?
I gather that both basically cost around the same price new when manufactured. No doubt a matter of personal taste when it comes to speakers. Mark

[remusr]

Artsound - I am not sure what the L200A is. I know the original L200 and the later L200B. The earlier L200 has 2 ports and a pleated paper (cloth?) surround LE15B 15" for punchier bass whereas the later L200B has 1 port and a foam surround 136A 15" giving flatter & deeper bass extension. Both look the same with the grilles on BTW.
Neither has a UHF unit but rely on the LE85/2307/2308 for mids and highs so they are pretty well done by 15kHz. Some owners add the N8000 XOver & 077 slot UHF to extend the highs from 8kHz or the N7000 & 075 bullet at 7 to simulate a L300 or a 4333 3-way. From my experience I wouldn't do that to a L200 unless you change to the L200B woofer configuration as I do not think the LE15B has the bass extension to balance the new highs. Both sound good as JBL made them, everyone has their personal taste and some are content with these. Others that like more extended or flatter sound go to the newer 4430/4435 designs (no UHF either) or the 3-way 4333/L300 and 4-way 4341/43/45/50/55's that all have UHF drivers.
Oh yes - amplifier(s) - I use big transistor ones but have heard others prefer tubes for "sweeter" sound. Don't know, 350wpc is not enough for mine so haven't tried a tube! Making it yourself would be satisfying.

[Mr. Widget]

I recently made a comment to a person I know who owns a pair of KEF 104.2's that I believed the L-200 should be able to stomp his KEF's. He told me "only when pigs fly"!

It's a matter of choice... I would guess that most people would agree with your friend. Probably not if you polled the members of this forum, but we are an unusual group. In terms of dynamics and raw power the KEF can't keep up, but for overall sound quality, I'd take the KEF.

Both sound good as JBL made them, everyone has their personal taste and some are content with these.

I agree with your entire post, but focused on this line... my original comment wasn't to condemn the L200 for any short comings... I think all speakers have some, I wanted to find out what Artsound likes about them to help determine which amp will best show off that aspect of his speakers.


Widget

[Zilch]

"Fixing" L200(A) can be a bag of snakes.

Once you change the woofer to, say, 2235H, for more extended bass, the 1200Hz crossover frequency is too high. This presumes LE15B is actually better up there, but I don't know that as fact.

The more you lower that frequency, the worse the midrange becomes, because the horn is too short for anything lower than the stock 1200 Hz, and the longer L300 horn won't fit in that cabinet without punching the driver out the back.

Augmenting the HF is less problematic. I like the constant directivity 2404H better than either the bullet or the slot suggested above:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2404.pdf

Either N7000 (3105) or N8000 (3106) will work as crossover for that, though I'd opt for the lower frequency to retain maximum vertical dispersion from the MF horn/lens. 3 - 4 kHz might be a better choice, actually, for matching patterns. See Fig. 4b here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...6021#post76021

Back on the bass, LE15B is not a favored woofer on these forums, but there's no denying it has "punch." Considering the other problems created by replacing it, I'd be looking to add a killer subwoofer to the system instead. You'll easily bury the KEF with that combination.

Adding the UHF driver will improve the system more than any specific amplifier selection, I would say.

There are other options for upgrading L200 as a two-way, of course....

<------

[markd51]

Thank you Widget for your response, and I'm sorry to deviate this thread off topic somewhat, but had wished to discuss the L-200 some. I have an opportunity if I choose to buy a very nice pair of L-200A I believe at about $1400 for the pair, with all orignal drivers. Think this is a good deal? They do appear to have the cloth surround Bass Drivers, and not the later 136A with Foam Surround. Can anyone else comment about the L-200A's Driver-X-Over-Port consist?

Yes I have to concede if a speaker lacks in a certain frequency (low, or high) that it cannot be truly considered reference quality by today's standards.

I once owned a pair of Mirage M1si's, and they went back quickly to the dealer. (were they hot about this!) Didn't care for them at all.

I suppose a Sub could compliment the L-200 helping extract the lower frequencies.

I have heard the L-200's new back in the 70's, and the KEF's I mention. And I have heard the L-300 Summit.
Mark

[Zilch]

$1400 for L200A's?

Not if I was sober, nope....

[chad]

... In terms of dynamics and raw power the KEF can't keep up, but for overall sound quality, I'd take the KEF.....
Widget

I agree 110% .

Widget, I say cheers for your taste in loudspeakers and for having the confidence to (drumroll ) give credit to another manufacturer.

[Titanium Dome]

$1400 for L200A's?

Not if I was sober, nope....

Not even if you were drunk, I think.

[Mr. Widget]

"Fixing" L200(A) can be a bag of snakes.

In general I am pretty caviler about what is on and off topic, but that is pretty far off topic.

Here we have a fellow who really likes his L200s and wants the best possible sound from them...

How do you think your favorite JBL/Urei amps work with a stock L200?


Widget

[Zilch]

In general I am pretty caviler about what is on and off topic, but that is pretty far off topic.

Well, others broadened it into a more generalized discussion of L200(A), and I do have some experience there.

I believe artsound also specifically asked for same in the original post, as well:

"Or could you show me the way you passed when using L200A? Your feeling, your tips and tweaks...."

Here we have a fellow who really likes his L200s and wants the best possible sound from them....

He'll want to consider upgrades, then, as many L200(A) owners ultimately do. I think my point is that it doesn't have to be done wholesale, but I wouldn't be looking to the amp as the critical path. Start with the HF, instead, is my advice.

How do you think your favorite JBL/Urei amps work with a stock L200?

For maximum bass punch, they need an amp with more balls than the various and sundry weenie import receivers I have around here, for sure.

I'm not much into amp esoterica; that's outside where I believe investment most counts in all of this, though I do have some older high-end Sony ES for show.

Most everything runs on workhorse JBL 62xx here, as seen in the system pics I post. I keep that as a constant in system design and testing.

I consider stock L200 to be a rock 'n' roll speaker; same with my similarly configured 4325's. At 150 W/channel, 6260 has plenty of everything necessary to drive either of them authoritatively.

AND, at ~$150 of late, the price is right. Several other forum members like them, too, from what I've read; they don't come with much in the way of braggin' rights, is all....

I await the Widget critical listening review of one on a full-range system, currently pending. Thus far, they are approved for driving subs, apparently....

[edgewound]

If I may chime in on this one...the Ashley FET-1500/FTX-1500(~200w@8, 300@4 ohmsand FET-2000/FTX-2000(~300@8,550@4ohms) amps are very underrated for sound quality and are an exceptional value. Sure, they are pro-sound amps with a fan, but the build quality is exceptional and very reliable. Damping factor isn't huge on the bottom end at around 200, but overall very sweet sounding amps....as I'm sure JBL/UREI 6260 and 6290's are as well.