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Thread: 2 Way using AMT Heil.

  1. #1
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    2 Way using AMT Heil.

    Hi. I am new to this forum , so be kind. I am looking to build a 2way system using a JBL woofer and an AMT Heil air motion tweeter. Which woofer would you recommend considering i am looking to crossover no lower than 800 and want to keep the cabinet volume between 3-4 cu ft. I am not very knowledgeable about JBL drivers so i would appreciate advice. I will be driving these with a 15 watt el84 push pull tube amp.

    steve.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    I'd use an LE14.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I'd use an LE14.
    Sounds like a good choice to me as well. The Le14 is a large 14" driver with a 4" coil used in L250/L250Ti/L240Ti/L220/L222. You could also go with 12's with 3 " coils like 2214 used in the 4425/L100T/XPL-200 and a 12" 128h-1 used in 120ti/4412 if you have difficulty finding LE-14's. The Le-14 comes in several versions. The Original Alnico A white cones and the H's gray cones which are Ferrite. The A's are on Ebay all the time. The H's are also up but hard to find and expensive lately. You can order LE-14h-3 which is the best of the lot from JBL but they are not inexpensive .

    Rob

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    The LE14 isn't fantastic at 800Hz and has relatively low sensitivity. I can think of a couple of non JBLs that I would use first. How about the JBL 1200FE?


    Widget

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I see Rob added to his post. His 2214 suggestion also makes sense to me. I think it would have a bit more bass than the 1200FE but not quite have the control.


    Widget

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    emt heil 2way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    I see Rob added to his post. His 2214 suggestion also makes sense to me. I think it would have a bit more bass than the 1200FE but not quite have the control.


    Widget
    Thanks for the replies.
    Is there somewhere i can see the specs for the various drivers. I don`t know the sensitivity of the le14 or the 2214. You also mentioned other non jbl drivers?
    Steve.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    OK you have the T/S tables which gives you efficiency in %

    Here http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...s/tech1-3a.htm

    You need conversion table

    Here http://www.trueaudio.com/downloads/spl_eff.xls

    Or you can just look up the systems where the drivers were used. Most systems are based on the woofer sensitivity so it's works out pretty well using the system numbers in Db, just watch the distance on the older systems. There are rated at 15 ft as opposed to 1 meter.

    Here http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...e-speakers.htm

    4425 is 91 db on the 2214 and L240Ti is 89 and L250 is 90 for Le-14.


    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606
    OK you have the T/S tables which gives you efficiency in %

    Here http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...s/tech1-3a.htm

    You need conversion table

    Here http://www.trueaudio.com/downloads/spl_eff.xls

    Or you can just look up the systems where the drivers were used. Most systems are based on the woofer sensitivity so it's works out pretty well using the system numbers in Db, just watch the distance on the older systems. There are rated at 15 ft as opposed to 1 meter.

    Here http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...e-speakers.htm

    4425 is 91 db on the 2214 and L240Ti is 89 and L250 is 90 for Le-14.


    Rob
    Thanks Rob.
    I guess i just need to decide between the two. Does anyone have any other suggestions? I`m leaning towards the le14 from opinions i`ve been reading. How is the d123a-1 in comparison? This is a wide range woofer right? Bear with me, i`m learning.
    Steve.

  9. #9
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    How is the d123a-1 in comparison?
    That is the L100/4311 woofer. In those applications it was run wide open with no crossover so it rolled off naturally. It uses a curvalinear cone and has a decent X-Max. Personally I like it but I think you can get a smoother more extended low end response in your volume from some of the other woofers. What I would do is take any woofers you are considering and running them in a box program to see what they will do in your chosen volume range. Win Isd is free and can be downloaded here:

    http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisd

    The program comes preloaded with many drivers from many manufacturers so it makes things a bit easier than searching for T/S pararmeters and then loading them.

    If you know anyone who owns JBL's or any other system that uses the woofers you are interested in go have a listen. You can get a general concensus about how a driver sounds and find it just doesn't work in your application or doesn't sound right to you. It's hard giving subjective opinions for that reason.

    As far as any of the woofers listed so far I have used all of them and in general I think it would be hard to go wrong with any of them once they are properly installed in a well built cabinet, tuned, and crossed over in their intended range. They are all a bit different but all perform well.

    Rob

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606
    As far as any of the woofers listed so far I have used all of them and in general I think it would be hard to go wrong with any of them...
    An LE14 with only 15 watts???

    Maybe, I know I would need much more power. Personally I wouldn't consider any woofer with less than a 93dB sensitivity and I think I'd prefer a high efficiency number with an added self powered sub.


    Widget

  11. #11
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Here's a thought.

    Go with JBL 12's that still have recone kits available. 123A-3, 2213A/H (not A-1, nor 2212...too expensive to recone), 122A, 128H/-1, 129H.

    2213's are plentiful on ebay and they can still be reconed. Couple it with a passive radiator like the AMT-1's have, fill it with lots of damping material to kill the ringing of the PR and tune it to your liking in 2-3 cu ft box. The 2213 (123A-3) has the cloth surround that will be very durable. I think you'd be very satisfied and it would work well with a tube amp.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  12. #12
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Widget

    I understand your concerns however the woofer efficiency in the systems is posted and an efficiency chart is posted. I hear you on the power, but you don't know how loud, what size the room is, listening habits and so on. The point I was making is they are all good drivers and set-up you won't need subs.

    It was a general statement. I wouldn't use less than 100 watts with any of them but that's me.

    I have seen people power 87 Db stuff with 2 watt SET'S and be just fine with it. That said how sensitive is the Heil?? That is what is going to determine how sensitive a driver he can use.

    Rob

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    - Cyr Marc ( over at the H.E. forum of the A.A. site ) is positively effusive over the combo of the Heil with an Altec 414-8C ( I think that's the preferred impedance ). The 414 has a mid nineties figure for sensitivety . Iconic sells a new version of this speaker .
    - Do some site searches in their archives for that name ( he hasn't posted for quite some time ) .

    - I don't know the enclosure sizes he and his cohorts prefer for this combo / so you'll need to search out that info . You may need to register at Audio Asylum to research this info.
    - I'd somewhat ignore what the TS parameters suggest for an ancient legacy Lansing design / such as this .
    - Find out what the guys say actually "works" .
    - You may want to ask them if they've ever tested PRs ( passive radiators ) with the 414 . The original ESS/ AMT(s) used those to pretty good effect .


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    D123 and heil amt

    Ok, i`ve picked up a pair of D123s and am thinking a ported box about 4.0cu ft tuned to 38-40hz? I know that these don`t have the bass of the 123a-1s, but are more efficient. Anybody got any experience working with these drivers?
    Steve.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Don C's Avatar
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    I've had some of those. They are nice vintage full range speakers, but don't expect any bass.

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