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Thread: A serious question.

  1. #1
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
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    A serious question.

    How is it that some political, religion's, different opinions threads are allowed while other is being closed or removed???

    How is it that some "newbies" are swept away at their first question with something like: "We have been over this before" .. "read earlier threads, search.."?? .. And "why don't you open a new forum regarding this????" ... "we don't need this here". etc etc.

    It might be the right time to get some rules for the moderators so that they can reply the same way whatever the place on earth they live.

    It is certainly a time for some members to "chill out", and let the "newbies" feel welcome here or we will see a lot more of one, two ore three posting members here.

    As I see it it is a fact that moderators from the US, Germany, AU, and so on react differently on the same subject.

    I wish you all will take this question as a friendly question, as I believe there will come something good out of the discussion.
    It's really all about music.
    Rolf

  2. #2
    Obsolete
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    Let's say you were really into Altec or JBL when you were a youngster. You had a few friends who also caught the bug and everyone spent time together designing and building their various projects using Altec and/or JBL components. Let's say you also forged friendships with people who worked at JBL or Altec. It was a great time.

    Then you grew up and other responsibilities took center stage. Marriage, career, maybe kids. Fast forward twenty years and you're looking at those old Altec's or JBL's that have managed to travel through life with you and yours. You get on the Internet and start searching. Lo and behold you find Lansing Heritage.

    You find the forum and decide to join so you can see the photographs and perhaps post an experience or two. You tell your wife, your kids, your friends, maybe even your boss, that you found a really cool website devoted to what you consider to be a very important part of your past. They all know about your dedication to, and appreciation of, these Lansing products and they think it's great you've found what you think are like minded individuals.

    Then some dumbasses start posting really stupid crap. Dildos, political garbage, spam, pictures that have virtually no relation to the scope of the site at all. You know, the usual hallmarks of something good gone bad. Then you add in a bunch of goofballs posting about censorship, lack of freedom of speech, lack of tolerance, racism, etc., etc. and basically shoveling grief on a few moderators who have nothing but the best intentions at heart. Now, you tell me whats wrong with that picture.

    Read this and take it all in. Introduction
    Pretty benign don't you think? Get a feel for what the site is all about and then come back and tell me all this extracurricular bullshit has any validity. This site should absolutely remain a place where children and students can come and get information within the scope of the site. I really don't know how else to put it.

    I will add that you've got a very decent bunch of moderators. I'll also tell you all that I'd personally put up with your garbage for oh, about five microseconds and then I'd delete all your posts and ban you permanently.

    Oh, and you in the above post does not mean Rolf, unless Rolf thinks it applies to Rolf.

  3. #3
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Some valid questions

    You pose some valid questions Rolf. I agree that each moderator has their own idea of what belongs here and what does not. Can we expect anything different? I believe that most, if not all use their best judgement when closing or removing posts. I don't always agree and have the right to say so.

    For example, I was not offended by the recent photo's that were removed, but understood the moderators reason for doing so. However, I completely disagreed with the same moderator closing a thread when just a few posts back from announcing the close, he had participated in the discussion? I feel it would be wrong to publicly support one decision and keep silent about another.

    Without getting to corny we all love this place cause we have a common bond that brought us here. JBL has played a significant roll in many of our lives, but life is not just about woofers and tweeters and who's circuit is better. What I have learned from this place is were all the same but different. I like the diversity in this group, as frustrating as it can be sometimes. One thing I have learned is many of us have strong opinions on a variety of subjects and that's a good thing. Many here love a good debate.

    I enjoy the off topic area for the reasons above. It gives you insight as to who we are and why.

    Keep it simple, if we don't want these types of discussions, remove the area all together. By all means keep it clean (for lack of a better term) but do not censor the exchange of ideas, we have much to learn from our fellow man.

    Ken

  4. #4
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    This site should absolutely remain a place where children and students can come and get information within the scope of the site. I really don't know how else to put it.

    I will add that you've got a very decent bunch of moderators.
    I agree in principal Giskard. Based on your opinion the Off Topic area should be closed permanently. Is that your feeling?

    Ken

  5. #5
    Obsolete
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky
    Based on your opinion the Off Topic area should be closed permanently. Is that your feeling?

    Ken
    The off-topic area is "ok" if normal people post in it. The people who had issues with Bo moderating it should probably kill themselves. At least that's what I'd like to see happen.

    Can you tell I'm a wee bit disgusted Ken?

  6. #6
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    Can you tell I'm a wee bit disgusted Ken?
    I can appreciate your feelings, I have the utmost respect for Bo and he knows that. I simply disagreed with his decision to close the thread. The day I can't express that, is the day I will leave ( I simply refuse to kill myself though)

    In closing, I thought your post was articulate and well put and agreed with much of its content.

    Ken

  7. #7
    norealtalent
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard


    "You know... life isn't for everyone."
    Had to cut and paste this before it disappears!

  8. #8
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    [quote=Giskard]
    "You know... life isn't for everyone."
    [/quote

    Admitadly funny!

    Anyway, enough on this. Its not that big a deal, just answering Rolf's post.

    Have a good one all, its off to work I go.

    Ken

  9. #9
    Moderator / Treasurer/Marketplace Czar boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky
    However, I completely disagreed with the same moderator closing a thread when just a few posts back from announcing the close, he had participated in the discussion?
    I don't follow that logic - not that I need to, but was called out to defend the action.

    For those not following this script so closely, the thread started as a nice (really) nice picturebook about people and places most of you have not seen. There was some political and cultural liner notes. All of it mostly very interesting. Then there were two pictures that were off-color, and while arguably not so bad in themselves, they elicited some very - shall we say - turgid replies. It wasn't pretty. So, they and the inciting pictures were deep-sixed. Then we got back on topic, but only briefly before we spun wildly off center about pollution and the book of Revelation. The Thread was becoming a stream of consciousness - anyone's, and anything. In those instances, we tend to Close.

    Sure, I partipated, but so what - that means I can't close it? Even I know when to shut up. The thing had been there long enough, and was over.

    If you guys want an End of the World Thread, start one <edit: never mind, I did it for you: End of the World>.
    This way, northwoods is able to start "picturebook II", if he is so inclined.
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  10. #10
    Obsolete
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam
    If you guys want an End of the World Thread, start one.
    Only if someone mentions the L100 or L220 again. Then let's crack the planet in half with several of Dr. Evil's deep drilling nukes. Fair enough?

  11. #11
    norealtalent
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maron Horonzakz
    Or cut the tops off a 250.

  12. #12
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf
    How is it that some political, religion's, different opinions threads are allowed while other is being closed or removed???
    I think you miss the point of our attempts at moderation. We don't select one ideology over another and delete those we disagree with... even among the current lineup of moderators we have a wide range of political and religious beliefs. We step in if forum members become rude to each other or post material that is blatantly offensive. Sure we all have different opinions as to what is blatantly offensive... and maybe sometimes the threshold is set too high or low, but overall I think we are willing to accept a fair amount moderately distasteful material.

    As you may recall I was not in favor of the Off Off Topic thread's creation in the first place as I thought it would encourage off color posts... I now think I was wrong. I think it is fine that we now have a proper sewer for all of the crap to be posted in. I personally don't follow the threads down there, but I think it is good that it gives an avenue for those so inclined. I was asked by a fellow forum member to delve into the sewer a few weeks back to delete a thread... I checked it out and was shocked to see graphic photos of someone killing a kitten. I deleted it. That was obviously over the line, but if someone wants to post photos of their recent trip, or start a thread about how they restored their car or whatever, we now have a proper place for it. If on that thread people start name calling or show photos of their naked girlfriend in the car we (most likely Bo) will take action.


    Widget

  13. #13
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    I wouldn't want to be a moderator. It seems like a babysitting job. Hats off to you guys.

    May I suggest an open protocol? Perhaps if the moderators could re-direct the path of certain threads, it may be fine to keep it going and let it evolve. Some threads take on a life all their own...


    How about a 'hey guys- let's keep this ON topic, OK?'
    Or a 'that is completely unacceptable material for this forum- I deleted that post. If anyone else posts something like that- consider yourself banned for a few weeks. Carry on.'

    To address/add to Rolf's original concerns:
    I noticed how some people openly name call and make threats (indirect or otherwise) and those posts are still in print. Why do we have forum rules if they are not fully enforced?

    All I know is- I try to respect the fact that this forum is in dedication to a man. I consider his family, and the contributions he made to society before I type or post something outwardly filthy.

  14. #14
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    I checked it out and was shocked to see graphic photos of someone killing a kitten. I deleted it. That was obviously over the line, but if someone wants to post photos of their recent trip, or start a thread about how they restored their car or whatever, we now have a proper place for it. If on that thread people start name calling or show photos of their naked girlfriend in the car we (most likely Bo) will take action.


    Widget
    And so he should.

    Its easy to get clipped on the chin when you are not afraid to voice an opinion. Read it and make your own judgement. I did, voiced mine and will continue to do so. Widget has the right idea.

    I have a solution. Make the area non public and that way only those that want to access the off topic area can do so. I still believe it should be monitored for the above reasons. Pornography and dead kittens don't turn my crank, but others political views and opinions do.

    Let me be clear. I am not outraged by this but merely pointing out what I believe was an error. Thats all.
    Ken

  15. #15
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf

    How is it that some "newbies" are swept away at their first question with something like: "We have been over this before" .. "read earlier threads, search.."?? .. And "why don't you open a new forum regarding this????" ... "we don't need this here". etc etc.


    It is certainly a time for some members to "chill out", and let the "newbies" feel welcome here or we will see a lot more of one, two ore three posting members here.

    As I see it it is a fact that moderators from the US, Germany, AU, and so on react differently on the same subject.

    .
    Rolf,

    I understand your concerns.

    Taking the last point first, the moderators often discuss a post or poster before even considering any action, and as a rule they usually agree on an issue.

    About the newbies everyone needs a certain amount of orientation in a new place. Given the rate of growth in membership and active posters I think this is a healthy sign.

    I myself tend not to post much these days unless I feel I can actually add something new to the table and I am inclined not to repeat myself and often will refer to the search function or a link. We all had to do this when we first joined and it makes you realise the forums are a real treasure of knowledge for those who bother to look.

    There actually wasn't anything at the start, and a huge slab of what we have now is a legacy from Giskard. I doubt it any newbies appreciate that.



    Ian

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