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Thread: Replacing 2231 in 4333 with 2235

  1. #1
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Replacing 2231 in 4333 with 2235

    Even though JBL has long since discontinued the 2231 kit and offered the 2235 as a replacement, I think it may not be ideal in some situations. I'm just trying some 2235's in my 4333's. The bass is clearly tighter with lower distortion, but the midrange is just as clearly not as good.

    What the reasons are is a question. These are used 2235's that have not been tested in any way, but they look clean and seller maintains they have been lightly used. Another unknown variable is the condition of the Alnico magnets in my 2231's, although I know their history and am quite certain they have not been abused.

    If you compare the published frequency response curves of the 2231 and the 2235 you will see significant differences in the range from about 600 Hz upward. The 2235 has a pretty sharp rise followed by a ragged decline, whereas the 2231 has a more gradual rise extending farther into the midrange and a smooth decline. At least, this is how the two are pictured.

    With an 800 Hz crossover point those differences would be audible, I believe. Perhaps what is more important may be the measures that have been taken in designing the crossover for the 2231 which might suppress that midrange plateau. That would be exactly the wrong thing to do with the 2235. The upper range of the 2235 may not match up well with a crossover designed for the 2231, so the sound in the crossover region is being dominated by the horn. On the other hand, a crossover like the 3135 for the 4430 may have been tweaked to deal with the upper range of the 2235, but I wouldn't know how.

    I would say a 2231 or 136 in a four-way, or a three-way with a lower crossover point could be reconed with the 2235 kit without hesitation. If, however, you have a 2231 in the 4333 or similar three way, and your 2231 cones are ok, and you are considering whether to refoam or recone, I would definitely suggest using the unsanctioned after market foams and keeping the original cones, based on my anecdotal experience. If your cones are gone, of course, there is no other option but to recone.

    David

    Edit: On reconsidering, it might have been better to put this thread in general discussion. I put it here, because I really wanted to elicit comment from anyone who might have technical information bearing on this issue.

  2. #2
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    I would asbolutely use the 2235H kit. If you think the 2235H doesn't sound good in an L300 or 4333 then tweak the network.

  3. #3
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Yeah. I really wish I hadn't done this. I was enjoying these speakers a great deal. Now I don't think I would ever be happy with the 2231 bass, knowing the 2235 is better. On the other hand, I can't listen to them this way.

    I'm using a zero feedback tube preamp now, and I noticed a little bloom in the bass with that change. It really wasn't objectionable, but I thought the 2235 might restore some of the overall tightness in the bass. They did. I'm so into the midrange of this preamp, though, that I'm not ready to give it up.

    Rather than start digging around in the crossover of a classic, I think the next step for me is to biamp, using a crossover with selectable slopes for the low pass, but things are clearly pointing in the direction of a four-way. For biamping I really want a cone midrange driven by tubes.

    David

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Dave

    If you thinking along those lines you might want to drop in the 10" to a 4344. Only uses the 2235 up to 300Hz or so and the 2122 is killer. It helps the 1' driver as well with crossover shifted up to 1.2K Sorry your not happy with the new kits.

    Rob

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Unfortunately dropping a pair of 2122s into an existing pair of 4333s isn't exactly possible... and Dave's 4333s are in very nice shape... that said, maybe a pair of DIY 4344s are in order???

    I must agree that pushing the 1" driver up a few hertz is a welcomed relief and the added sonic texture gained by adding the midbass driver is also quite an additional benefit.


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    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Well, I have a pair of gray 2122 frames waiting here, maybe it's time to have them reconed and do a mock-up of the top three drivers on top of these biwireable 4333's.

    David

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    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    This thread is going in just the right direction...
    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave
    Well, I have a pair of gray 2122 frames waiting here....
    Do it, do it, do it... think Animal House here.


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    My 2 cents worth here: I swapped AlNiCo 2231's that had been re-coned as 2235's in my 2 channel system operating at the time from 100 - 800 Hz for factory 2235H's that I swiped from my 4430's.

    Major change for the better, over here

    The 4430's now sport old 2231's with 2235 cones......but they are on HT duty, so who cares?

  10. #10
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chas
    My 2 cents worth here: I swapped AlNiCo 2231's that had been re-coned as 2235's in my 2 channel system operating at the time from 100 - 800 Hz for factory 2235H's that I swiped from my 4430's.

    Major change for the better, over here

    The 4430's now sport old 2231's with 2235 cones......but they are on HT duty, so who cares?
    All useful information. It's not that I don't think the 2235 has the range. It's just that I think the crossover/filter requirements for the 2235 and the 2231 are different.

    David

  11. #11
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    Do it, do it, do it... think Animal House here.
    I'm still working in this allusion. I may need to watch the movie again.

    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave
    I'm still working in this allusion. I may need to watch the movie again.

    David
    Instead of do it, do it, think toga, toga.

  13. #13
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin
    Instead of do it, do it, think toga, toga.
    Ah. OK. The idea being, there's a whole crowd repeating the chant. I hear it, I can hear it now.

  14. #14
    Senior Member herve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave
    All useful information. It's not that I don't think the 2235 has the range. It's just that I think the crossover/filter requirements for the 2235 and the 2231 are different.

    David
    Yes, the 2235 in 4333a is very different. Disapointed !! bad medium frequency. the 2231 is better choice .
    Hervé

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave
    If you compare the published frequency response curves of the 2231 and the 2235 you will see significant differences in the range from about 600 Hz upward. The 2235 has a pretty sharp rise followed by a ragged decline, whereas the 2231 has a more gradual rise extending farther into the midrange and a smooth decline. At least, this is how the two are pictured.
    Please post both for a visual. I don't feel like hunting them down and doing it myself.

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