Altec Model 19 - replacement of 802 with TAD 2001 compression driver

Hello -


Can someone please weigh in on the issues/ramifications related to replacing the 802 with TAD2001? Current model 19 is stock. I got the TAD at a reasonable price that allows me to test them and re-sell if they don't work for me. I am a big fan of TAD - had a TAD-based system I built awhile back but had too much money into it so had to sell.

Anyhow, any attachment issues to the horn for the TAD2001?

I am assuming the potentiometer setting for the high freq will have to be lowered (or pot for low frequency raised) from recommended pot settings as I think the TAD is higher sensititivity though not sure.

Aside from that, I am also assuming crossover should be fine. TAD recommends 800 Hz or higher cutoff.

Using a very heavily modified Mapleshade/Scott 222-d which is an incredible match with the model 19.

Any help or advice from those who have done a similar thing is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Don

Have you ever rebuilt the X-over in the 19 first.If not I highly recommend and bypass the ground lugs on the X-over as they become oxidized over time and can tell you they don't make good grounds after 30 years.It made a huge difference for my pair ;)


Attachment 47549sAttachment 47548.Attachment 47547

I have pulled the crossovers out and was going to spray the pots with deoxit (could not find a good entry point so I just worked the pots back and forth for now and that has worked pretty well). Other than that, have not done anything with the crossovers - overall the crossovers looked pretty good but I thought about sending them back to GPA to check out for any issues. The speakers sounded great so I did not pursue this quite yet.



I would like to do this. How did you do it? Original values? Did GPA or Todd White do this? It looks like you built a new chasis? I would like to stay with the original chasis but I'll bet the size of the caps you show prevent this.

Thanks,

Don

Here's a thread over at the Altec Board that was just discussed recently on this same subject.I had suggested this X-over upgrade to another member who did the upgrade and was completely Blown Away as I was.The difference is Night & Day No exaggeration.For the cost of about $115 for parts is truely rewarding ! And the Ground Lug Bypass with a direct wire connection is absolutely necessary ! IMHO Regards ~ John



http://www.hostboard.com/forums/alte...-19s-sale.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altec Best

Here's a thread over at the Altec Board that was just discussed recently on this same subject.I had suggested this X-over upgrade to another member who did the upgrade and was completely Blown Away as I was.The difference is Night & Day No exaggeration.For the cost of about $115 for parts is truely rewarding ! And the Ground Lug Bypass with a direct wire connection is absolutely necessary ! IMHO Regards ~ John



http://www.hostboard.com/forums/alte...-19s-sale.html

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Very Interesting. I have not decided whether I should do this one myself. It sounds like Dave can really get this right since he has done it previously. Do you have his contact info. Probably would get the resistors as well. Can you pinpoint in one of your photos the ground lug bypass, or is it obvious?

Still interested to know if anyone has put in TAD 2001 in the 19s. I seem to remember finding a thread on this at some point but have not been successful in locating it. I am not sure if it was on this board.

Thanks again. Great resource is this place.

Don

I replaced the Altec 802-8Gs with TAD TD-2001s in my Altec M19s about 3 years ago.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ht=#post182528

The TADs bolt right up to the 811B horns, no problemo.

The TADs by ear seem to be about the same sensitivity as the Altecs. Even after I had Orange County Speakers recharge them. You have to readjust the pots by ear (by taste) to get the best balance, but I always end up still well within the indicated "optimum" range as with the 802s.

Crossover's OK as stock. In fact, I like it a lot better that the aftermarket Iconic version. IMO it might be good to keep it stock until you get a handle on just what the TAD is (or isn't) contributing. Too many variables at once can really send you down the wrong path. I've gone to a charge coupled configuration with Carli Mylar caps, Dueland resistors, and stock inductors. I've also done the ground bypass that Altec Best pioneered. That works well.

As for cleaning the pots, I unbolted them from the front plate, and carefully unpryed the mounting tabs on the cover so that I could remove it from the ceramic body of the pot. I then took grey Scotchbrite and Deoxit and polished the internals. Wiped up with alcohol, light spray of Deoxit, and reassembled.

I'm currently using a modified el cheapo Chinese PP 6P6 amp. Very similar to your PP 7189 Scott 222-D.

For speaker setup, I found it best to have the speakers pointed right at your ears. When you are sitting in the listening position, shine a flashlight right into the horns. You want to clearly see the phaseplugs pointing directly at you (you did remove the bug screens didn't you?).

The TADs give the M19s a more refined character with HF air without the brashness of the 802s, but be aware there is a slight suck out in the response of the TADs around 1.6-2Khz due to an internal cavity resonance.

What you end up with is not a M19, but something different that you tune to your sonic preferences, and can be returned to stock very easily if need be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve Jones

but be aware there is a slight suck out in the response of the TADs around 1.6-2Khz due to an internal cavity resonance.

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@Steve My suggestion was to do the X-over Upgrade first as it maybe enough,Trying to save him some cash it may not be necessary to change the drivers as the difference is great,the beauty is he can always change the drivers after the upgrade if he is not satisfied.The bypass and changing the caps and resistors and cleaning of the L-pads made such a tremendous difference I can't stress or recommend it enough.Model 19's haven't been made in decades so the X-overs rebuilds should be the first thing that is done to them.;)

@Don They are the rivets that hold the bars to the aluminum plate there are 4 of them 2 on each side.I'll see if I can throw together a diagram for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altec Best

The bypass and changing the caps and resistors and cleaning of the L-pads made such a tremendous difference I can't stress or recommend it enough.

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Obviously. ;)

It's all a matter of preference. I for one do-not-at-all like metalized polyprop caps, especially Solens. YMMV.

The TAD TD-2001 plays in another league compared to the Altec 802-8G. If you've heard them as Don and I have, you just might agree. No amount of crossover tweeking will bridge the gap between these drivers. Its all about working to bring out the best that each has to offer.

Agreed ! What is it about the Solens that you don't like I think they work great in the 19 you are right about preferences though everything is about preference isn't it.:p

Thank You about the compliment Steve on the Bypass :)

Thanks for all the replies. You guys have given me a lot to think about. I have to figure out which direction to go first. The TADs are already en route. I agree it is best to do one thing at a time and listen for at least a month.

I think I understand what has to be done now on the bypass - basically just do a direct connection from wire to wire leaving the tabs out of the path.

I like the idea of trying to open and clean the pots. As I mentioned, the only thing I could do so far was move the pots fully back and forth to knock loose dirt / corrosion.

I'll be doing most of this when off of work in Dec. But I can order parts now. Maybe worthwhile to try both cap types - Steve: any more details or a link to thread on your parts change in the crossover and where you purchased? I think I can handle doing this myself. I have not done any soldering in 15 years but I rebuilt a harmon-kardon 730 and dyna st70 back then.

I just saw CSN (for the umpteeth time) in Cleveland last nite. Great show. Beautiful evening. I don't go to many live shows any more in order to save my hearing. I don't need to play the Altec 19s too loud to get the big and good sound - which is one reason why I like them so much.

Sincerely,

Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

I just saw CSN (for the umpteeth time) in Cleveland last nite. Great show. Beautiful evening. I don't go to many live shows any more in order to save my hearing. ...


Sincerely,

Don

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sorry to go a bit OT, but i've found this $20 investment to be
amongst the best money i've spent on 'audio' gear recently...

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

Thanks for all the replies. You guys have given me a lot to think about. I have to figure out which direction to go first. The TADs are already en route. I agree it is best to do one thing at a time and listen for at least a month.

I don't need to play the Altec 19s too loud to get the big and good sound - which is one reason why I like them so much.

Sincerely,

Don

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WOW, Model 19,s using TAD compression drivers, once you get this system dialed in, the TAD drivers and their Be diaphragms are hard to beat.

:thmbsup:

Altec Best is right,
Do the crossover upgrade first....you won't believe how good that 802 can sound.
I used Solen Fast Caps (about $100) but with the difference it made I'm going to use Sonicaps....should be even better.

You should try bypassing the MF & HF pots with fixed resistors. 10 ohms is equal to the mid in the "optimum " position & if you like the top end really bright, just connect the 2 wires from the HF pot together. This was a bit too hot for me, so I used a 3 0hm resistor (just right).

I can say that you've never really heard the 19's at their best until you do this cap upgrade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by louped garouv

sorry to go a bit OT, but i've found this $20 investment to be
amongst the best money i've spent on 'audio' gear recently...

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx

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Should have had these last nite but luckily was sitting mid section, reasonably center stage and thus not in front of the speakers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sootshe

Altec Best is right,
Do the crossover upgrade first....you won't believe how good that 802 can sound.
I used Solen Fast Caps (about $100) but with the difference it made I'm going to use Sonicaps....should be even better.

You should try bypassing the MF & HF pots with fixed resistors. 10 ohms is equal to the mid in the "optimum " position & if you like the top end really bright, just connect the 2 wires from the HF pot together. This was a bit too hot for me, so I used a 3 0hm resistor (just right).

I can say that you've never really heard the 19's at their best until you do this cap upgrade.

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;) BTW,are those 802-8G's for sale :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altec Best

;) BTW,are those 802-8G's for sale :D

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Hello Altec Best - for now, I would keep the 802-8gs in case I ever have to go back to stock, either because I like them better than the TAD (cannot see how this will be possible based on my prior experience with my TAD4001-based system) or to sell M19s as stock.

For example, I might have to sell if someone can lend me 25K to buy:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....II-4-way-horn-

;)

Will keep folks alerted to my progress in the future.

Sincerely,

Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

For example, I might have to sell if someone can lend me 25K to buy:

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For that kind of money I would get a pair of Everest II's ;)

BTW: I didn't think you would sell the 802's I was just kidding.They should always remain with the 19's to give someone options of being able to bring them back to stock/original condition. :yes: Besides I have a pair of NOS 802-8G's w/23744 diaghram already still in the original shipping boxes. :D


Attachment 47594

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altec Best

For that kind of money I would get a pair of Everest II's ;)
Attachment 47594

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I don't think you can get Everests for that $:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....Everest-66000-


FYI to Steve Jones - could not get in touch with you off-line. Messages to your private email all bounced and did not have permission privately to get in touch with you thru the forum.

Sincerely,

Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

FYI to Steve Jones - could not get in touch with you off-line. Messages to your private email all bounced and did not have permission privately to get in touch with you thru the forum.

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Don,
email me at:
jonessteveATclear.net
-replace AT with @

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

I don't think you can get Everests for that $:

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That's why I still don't have a pair yet ;) I say yes I want a pair,but my bank account says "No You Don't" :D Well anyway Good Luck with the TAD's


Don Best Wishes !! Regards ~ John

Hi Everybody –

I finally installed the TAD2001 in place of the 902-8A HF drivers that were the drivers that were present in my pair of M19s. I have not listened enough to tell you if this was worthwhile. I put on a Beatles mono CD, the mono masters, was listening to Hey Jude while I had one TAD2001 and one 902-8A installed. It was difficult to draw conclusions. When listening to Sonny Rollins ‘Way Out West’ CD with both TAD2001 installed, there does seem to be more of a fullness and less bright tone to this driver vs. the 902-8A. However, it seemed very subtle to me. This sort of shocks me as I expected a drastic change based on my experience with the TAD4001. Maybe this would come out with higher volume listening also where the 902-8A is only rated for 10W while the 2001 is rated for 30W. This experience to date is a testimonial to how good the 902-8A are, or I am not listening to the recordings that would decipher the major difference. I will keep at this for awhile. I have some photos regarding the actual replacement steps if you would like me to post those.
A few comments.

1) I wanted to remove what I thought was a bug screen on the TAD but the throat was too deep to allow me to safely try this.
2) I did not remove the woofer – I am not sure which one it is yet. Rhetorical question, with the TAD2001 and crossover frequency at 1200 Hz, is the ideal replacement woofer the unobtainable TAD1601c?
3) Often wondered why someone has not developed a good replacement wood horn yet since you do see those for the larger format compression drivers.

Next I have to start to work on the crossover and internal speaker wiring. That is a December project. Still debating which way to go on this.

If you want "vintage Altec" sound then there is no reason to switch. I agree with getting the crossovers looked at, if not anything for reliability. I replaced mine with the factory replacements from GPA. I kept the originals in case I was to sell one day.

Which version of the Altec 19 do you have? What woofers? There was a C and a B. They present different bass response. If you want a vintage type sound I would recommend adding a horn tweeter like the EV T-35 with the proper attenuation. I do believe there is a thread here discussing how to do this.

If you are looking for the best possible sound and do not care about having a completely stock system, then they are worth a try. I would imagine you would get more extended highs at the expense of some midrange. The TAD 2001 is not designed for the Altec 19, 811B horn, but it will physically mount. This is kind of like putting a LS1 engine in a '67 Corvette. Good luck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MyLittleViking

The TAD 2001 is not designed for the Altec 19, 811B horn, but it will physically mount. This is kind of like putting a LS1 engine in a '67 Corvette. Good luck

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Is the TAD compression driver line basically also a decendent of the early
Lansing Manufacturing Co efforts?

much like (to my understanding that) the TAD 160* series woofers are
generally considered further evolution of prior art....

The offerings from Great Plains Audio would probably be more of a closer representation of this evolution as they too have made great improvements, but also have what I'd consider NOS replacement parts to keep vintage Altec gear up and running running. Most times stereo pairs need to be ordered as they are not direct replacements. Bur in my experience the difference has been subtle and does not detract from the unique "vintage Altec" sonic character.

TAD has indeed taken these improvements one step further and have sonics the likes of which the engineers at Altec Lansing could never have dreamed of, but they don't inherently have that unique Altec sound.

It just depends on what this person is after. If they want the best possible resultant sound and do not wish to pursue a purist approach will all original or NOS components, then most certainly TAD drivers and updated crossover components would do the trick. However, its been my experience that its best to couple TAD compression drivers with the horn meant for that specific driver as well as a woofer to match the unique timbre throughout the speaker system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MyLittleViking

Which version of the Altec 19 do you have? What woofers? There was a C and a B. They present different bass response.

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Hi,

Thanks for replying to this thread. I have not pulled the woofers yet to know but I expect they were the ones that were mated with the 902-8A compression driver. this might have been the last version of the M19 - you may know better. By the way, I thought I had the 802 compression driver until I pulled the horns/drivers out and did the exchange with the TAD2001.

As for initial listening impressions, I think you have a good point. I am leaning towards putting the 902-8A back in. I'll give it a little more time. But might have a nice pair of TAD2001 for someone if they are interested.

Do you have the link for GPA crossovers - I only see their loudspeakers? More than likely, I am going to keep the crossover with stock values but bypass the lugs, and replace the caps with new ones. Just have not decided yet what is the best choice. I prefer the vintage warmer sound versus the analytical sound. But I still want detail.

Sincerely,

Don

You most likely have the later version Model 19 with the C version ferrite motored woofers, they are certainly keepers. I'd advise emailing Great Plains Audio, not sure if they have the networks listed anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MyLittleViking

You most likely have the later version Model 19 with the C version ferrite motored woofers, they are certainly keepers. I'd advise emailing Great Plains Audio, not sure if they have the networks listed anymore.

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I always thought the alnico models were more desirable than the ferrite models but I have to admit these are quite good. I'll verify the model at a later time.

Yes, you are certainly correct. The Alnico drivers are indeed more desirable especially to collectors. The C version however has more bass and a smoother response esp. when coupled to DC solid state amps. When re-magnetized and working perfectly, the Alnico driver has a unique sound and when coupled with a "golden oldie" tube amp creates nothing short of what I'd call sonic magic. I used a 4-ch. magnavox tube amp which allowed me to bi-amp these speakers.

Getting the crossovers to perform the correct way and getting the Alnico woofer performing within spec proved to be the most difficult as they tend to de-magnetize over time.

The only reason I asked about the woofer is that if you have the later model you have none of these issues and have a better starting point for a modified system. The biggest hurdle you will face with this speaker is getting the attenuation right. Ask anyone with Altec VOTTs, they have a bloated midrange and roll-off very steeply after 10,000 Hz with virtually no usable output past 15,000 Hz. Its never been an issue with me running pure analog, but with todays digital front end capable of producing frequencies beyond the human hearing range, there is a lot to be desired. My advice to you if you really are enamored with the Altec sound is to first go the route I took and get everything performing within OE spec.

If you do want to go the route of modifying, I'd go all out with these puppies. You can achieve sonic accuracy the likes of which you never thought was possible. There is a wealth of knowledge here that will get you on your way. The cabinets are superb and the woofers, CDs, and horns are very well thought out. The crossover is the weakest link as it uses a lot of attenuation to get them to perform well in a home setting. Remember that these speakers are basically just the home version of the VOTTs. Bi-amping these speakers in my eyes is an absolute must.

Zilch has come up with a passive network for the 19 that I haven't yet heard but it seems to be well received.The Z19 crossover.Search should find it here or at AK.Here is the link at AK http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...96&postcount=1 :)

WRT the woofers between the B,C version of the 416 there is supposed to be no difference.I personally feel they sound the same,with the C sounding a tad muddier compared to the B but it is very hard to discern IMHO. The Alnico's just have that warmer sound very hard to describe.But they do need to be recharged afthttp://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4081896&postcount=1er 20 years or thereabouts most definitely, that is the only drawback IMO.

Guys - Sorry I have not been here in awhile. I tried the TAD2001 and I think the stock 902-8A were the better match for the M19 and I put them back in. This makes me think Altec really knew what they were doing in matching this system including tailoring the crossover for this driver (or I cannot hear:)). Others may have a different experience.

I then put this project down to build a Stax headphone adapter to allow me to use my Stax headphones with the Scott/Mapleshade amp.

Now I am back to the crossover modification issue. So I want to do the ground lug bypass and I have visited the various threads. I understand that we want 3 jumper wires to attach to/between the ground lugs. But then how do we attach these to another common ground point somewhere? The negative speaker wire terminal - is it a true ground? Was confused by the discussion in some of the threads - is the latter the final connection one wants to make. Or is there another ground point somewhere on the chasis we want to connect one of the jumpers to?

Thanks,

Don

Hello,

The Altec horn rings like a bell, it might force its sound to any driver you install on it.
The TAD deserves a better horn, and can be crossed at 800, even 600, where it will shine.

Don--all you need are the three jumpers to connect the four ground lugs to each other. They are theoretically already connected but it's a mechanical connection--soldering in the three wires to connect the four ground lugs gives you a much better connection which is especially important due to the age of the crossovers and possible oxidation of the ground lugs interfering with their mechanical connection. I've done this modification to my Model 19's and also replaced all the original capacitors with Solen Fast Caps and the difference is astounding. Cleaner, clearer, more detailed overall sound---better bass and the h.f. now appears to roll off at a higher frequency. I also gave the pots a thorough cleaning. They sound amazing since I've done these mods.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jf65

Hello,

The Altec horn rings like a bell, it might force its sound to any driver you install on it.
The TAD deserves a better horn, and can be crossed at 800, even 600, where it will shine.

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It doesn't ring that much ! And if you reinstall the foams that came with the 19's they touch the outer part (Front) of the bell in two places, it is a moot point after that,like this ! No more ring !;)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/HPIM1836.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altec Best

It doesn't ring that much ! And if you reinstall the foams that came with the 19's they touch the outer part (Front) of the bell in two places, it is a moot point after that,like this ! No more ring !;)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/HPIM1836.jpg

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I agree--I use the foams with my Model 19's as well. Don--you made a great choice sticking with your original Model 19 h.f. drivers. If your Model 19's didn't come with foams for the horns, replacements are still being made by Paul and Debbie Darst [email protected]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voice of theatr

Don--all you need are the three jumpers to connect the four ground lugs to each other. They are theoretically already connected but it's a mechanical connection--soldering in the three wires to connect the four ground lugs gives you a much better connection which is especially important due to the age of the crossovers and possible oxidation of the ground lugs interfering with their mechanical connection. I've done this modification to my Model 19's and also replaced all the original capacitors with Solen Fast Caps and the difference is astounding. Cleaner, clearer, more detailed overall sound---better bass and the h.f. now appears to roll off at a higher frequency. I also gave the pots a thorough cleaning. They sound amazing since I've done these mods.....

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Thanks - I really appreciate it. Now I understand. I am going to tackle this one. I did pick up a second set of crossovers that have the new caps and resistors, but the mod is not done. I have not used these yet. I am going to see if I can get the soldering iron in there without having to remove the caps. Else, I have to pick up some desoldering braid and remove some of the larger ones. I can post some pics of the new ones I picked up.

The crossovers in my 19s now are stock. I had pulled them out just to look at them, and cleaned the pots mechanically because as I mentioned earlier, there was no way to spray deoxit without prying off the covers and I did not have the courage at that point.

Sincerely,

Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voice of theatr

I agree--I use the foams with my Model 19's as well. Don--you made a great choice sticking with your original Model 19 h.f. drivers. If your Model 19's didn't come with foams for the horns, replacements are still being made by Paul and Debbie Darst [email protected]

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I purchased the foam from the Darsts last year. Great work by them - a perfect fit and priced reasonably....Don

Here is a picture of one of unit of the 2nd pair of crossovers for the M19 that I have that were redone (bypass mod not done yet but upcoming). The Caps are Kimber.

Attachment 51096

One other point of note - a great CD that really hilites the strengths on the M19s is Blood, Sweat, and Tears (Extended Cuts) if you like that type of music. Horns are unreal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

I purchased the foam from the Darsts last year. Great work by them - a perfect fit and priced reasonably....Don

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Yes they are ! I was completely happy with mine ! The bypass mod is most important once that is done along with the other XO mods you have done you will be astonished at the difference in sound quality ! I was !



http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/HPIM2266.jpg

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/3e53b21b.jpg

[QUOTE=Altec Best;311474]It doesn't ring that much ! And if you reinstall the foams that came with the 19's they touch the outer part (Front) of the bell in two places, it is a moot point after that,like this ! No more ring !;)

I wil try it but i doubt that it will do much. How do you hear the metallic sound? Hitting wiith the finger? try with a small hammer, you will see that the sound is still there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altec Best

It doesn't ring that much ! And if you reinstall the foams that came with the 19's they touch the outer part (Front) of the bell in two places, it is a moot point after that,like this ! No more ring !;)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jf65

I wil try it but i doubt that it will do much. How do you hear the metallic sound? Hitting wiith the finger? try with a small hammer, you will see that the sound is still there.

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Really? If you hit a piece of metal with a hammer it makes a metallic sound? Wow! ;)

Actually, I have found that the foams do eliminate any audible ring on my Model 19 horns (Altec 811B horns) even at high listening levels. I've done A/B comparisons, and there is a surprising improvement with the foams dampening the horns.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voice of theatr

Really? If you hit a piece of metal with a hammer it makes a metallic sound? Wow! ;)
.

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And hitting with a finger will make a fingerly sound? If your horn doesn't ring the hammer will not make it ring.
It rings so much that anything on it will improve the sound a bit, but it is still a metallic horn, still very far from a wooden one, or you need to do more to really dampen it.

I was just trying to say that when you knock with your finger to hear the sound of a board or a horn it's too soft to make the thing vibrate at a high enough frequency - the disturbing one in the case of a metalic horn.
By ignoring this some people made enclosures out of stone which were very bad in the mids and highs.

Agree with posters regarding lack of ringing with foam around horn. I own a previous pair of model 19's and caulked the horns, along with new foam but didn't enjoy what I thought was ringing because of the aftermarket crossovers I installed. Way to bright IMHO.
In my present set of M-19's I modified the original crossovers keeping the inductors but wanting to see what differences could be had with higher end caps and resistors. I used a combination of Mundorf Supreme, M-Silver in Oil, Dynamicaps and Sonicaps along with Dueland resistors. I can't say that spending $$$ on caps vs $ on caps really makes a huge difference as I didn't listen with less expensive caps, but I've really enjoyed these speakers for the past four years and don't fore see changing. Pic's of crossovers and system. Model 19's are very good speakers and we are fortunate to own them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

Here is a picture of one of unit of the 2nd pair of crossovers for the M19 that I have that were redone (bypass mod not done yet but upcoming). The Caps are Kimber.

Attachment 51096

One other point of note - a great CD that really hilites the strengths on the M19s is Blood, Sweat, and Tears (Extended Cuts) if you like that type of music. Horns are unreal.

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Well guys, life got in the way again but I am back. I have completed the bypass mod on both the original crossovers that I have, and on the crossover pair that had the caps upgraded.

Attachment 51952


Attachment 51951

I am not sure how well it shows up, but they are the black wires with a little red nail polish I put on them to mark them. One thing I noticed was that there was already one wire connecting two of the lugs but I just ignored it and connected three new wires. I originally wanted to use multi-stranded 14 gauge I have that I use as speaker wire but I could not get the solder to melt so had to go to single-strand higher gauge wire that was probably about 22 gauge. I did this without removing other parts. Possibly removing the large caps on the upgraded crossover would have allowed me to maneuver the soldering pencil iron to better heat the joint and use the larger gauge wire.

Before I put things back in, I am still debating trying to clean the pots but I am still not 100% sure the best way to open these things up without doing any damage. Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

Sincerely,

Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

Before I put things back in, I am still debating trying to clean the pots but I am still not 100% sure the best way to open these things up without doing any damage. Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

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ps. Will spraying deoxit thru the vent holes at the back of the pot reach the contact areas for cleaning? I am not sure if the internal pot diameter is about the same as the external diameter. ie. if the contact area is reachable thru the vent holes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

ps. Will spraying deoxit thru the vent holes at the back of the pot reach the contact areas for cleaning? I am not sure if the internal pot diameter is about the same as the external diameter. ie. if the contact area is reachable thru the vent holes.

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Guys, with the flashlight at the right angle, I could see that the contact points were indeed visible from the vent holes in the back of the pots. Therefore, I just sprayed some deoxit in a few of the vents and worked the pots back and forth. I have installed the (upgraded) crossovers and the sound is great.

Thanks for your help. I'll still be keeping my eye on all things altec.


Sincerely,


Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donroth

Guys, with the flashlight at the right angle, I could see that the contact points were indeed visible from the vent holes in the back of the pots. Therefore, I just sprayed some deoxit in a few of the vents and worked the pots back and forth. I have installed the (upgraded) crossovers and the sound is great.

Thanks for your help. I'll still be keeping my eye on all things altec.


Sincerely,


Don

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Glad to hear your upgrades went so well. That is the same way that I cleaned the pots in my Model 19's (sprayed some deoxit in a few of the vents and worked the pots back and forth) and the pots are now whisper quiet when I rotate them.......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voice of theatr

Glad to hear your upgrades went so well. That is the same way that I cleaned the pots in my Model 19's (sprayed some deoxit in a few of the vents and worked the pots back and forth) and the pots are now whisper quiet when I rotate them.......

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Although my initial impressions were good, after extended listening sessions, I knew something was a bit off. It turns out that at identical crossover potentiometer positions for both left and right channel, the output is different by ~ 2dB. I noticed that placement of voices and instruments was not originally where I knew them to be on very familiar source material. I then put on a stereophile test disc to confirm this and reducing attenuation by exactly 2db in right channel (I have separate attenuators on my integrated amp for left and right channels) brings the proper balance. I know it is not the amp or cd player that is the problem since with the stock crossovers, balance is perfect. Once the balance is adjusted, the sound is superb. So going to have to track down the problem - I wonder if a resistor is out of specification. The resistors look newer but are identical to the ones in my original crossovers.

Thanks,

Don