Live Acoustic Music

Preoccupied as I often am with hi fi reproduction a refresher course in live music can be sobering.

One evening last week I was a few hours north, up in the redwoods of Mendocino County, in a wooden building made from old growth redwood and Douglas fir by CCC workers during the thirties. Outside children were playing, and people talking quietly under the trees and young lovers moving from the light into the shadows and out into the light again. Inside there were about 175 people on benches, on chairs, on the floor. From a side room a woman came in carrying a cello and walked to a small bench set for her about ten feet from where my wife and I were sitting. After a few moments' preparation she played Bach's Suite No. 1 in G for Unaccompanied Cello.

That was the high point. On other occasions during the week I heard solo voice, acoustic piano and guitar, flute, viola, oud, mandolin, various small rhythm instruments and that room filled to overspilling with singing voices.

There isn't a stereo anywhere that can come close.

David

But We try.

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Originally posted by speakerdave

There isn't a stereo anywhere that can come close.

David

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I made that painful discovery over 20 years ago when after hearing some great jazz, I went home to my then SOTA stereo and put on some similar music... I may have had Miles on the disc, but it was a pale comparison to the real deal.

Widget

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Originally posted by speakerdave
Preoccupied as I often am with hi fi reproduction a refresher course in live music can be sobering.

One evening last week I was a few hours north, up in the redwoods of Mendocino County, in a wooden building made from old growth redwood and Douglas fir by CCC workers during the thirties. Outside children were playing, and people talking quietly under the trees and young lovers moving from the light into the shadows and out into the light again. Inside there were about 175 people on benches, on chairs, on the floor. From a side room a woman came in carrying a cello and walked to a small bench set for her about ten feet from where my wife and I were sitting. After a few moments' preparation she played Bach's Suite No. 1 in G for Unaccompanied Cello.

That was the high point. On other occasions during the week I heard solo voice, acoustic piano and guitar, flute, viola, oud, mandolin, various small rhythm instruments and that room filled to overspilling with singing voices.

There isn't a stereo anywhere that can come close.

David

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100% correct. I know the feeling well, as many times I have gone out to hear live jazz or the opera, dont laugh, I go to the opera! And what always amazes me is how acoustic instruments or the human voice can sound so powerful, and fill a really big room, or theatre, and no recording or stereo system compares, no matter how powerful it may be!

Another time while at a convention in Atlanta, they had a carnivale type drum band roaming through the hall, which the Atlanta convention center is HUGE, and the drums sounded so powerful, and you could hear then clearly from what seemed to be a blocks distance away!

And all of this with absolutely no speakers or amplification!

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Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
But We try.

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:p

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Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
But We try.

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:yes:

And for you live sound support fanatics out there, this is simply the best active DI I've ever heard. Captures the subtle essence of the instrument. It really does sound like it's only you and the guitar, in the front sitting room, boy-howdy...

Radial Engineering J48 MkII

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Originally posted by boputnam


And for you live sound support fanatics out there, this is simply the best active DI I've ever heard.

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Hi, Bo,

I'm interested in this too because I know it's necessary sometimes. What is that? What does it do?

David

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Originally posted by speakerdave
What does it do?

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Hey, David...

It is a Direct Injection, DI, or "direct" box. It takes a high impedance signal and converts it to lo-Z - better for long runs to the console.

Read all about it, here: http://www.radialeng.com/di-j48-development.htm

Typical application was, as you see, originally designed for bass guitar. It is now used universally for acoustic instruments, and keys - anything with a high-impedance output. And, the +48V phantom powered design has improved application over the passive variety (but they can be good, too).

Yesterday, I had a guitar and dobro each on one, and the Yamaha keyboard, too. The latter needed the -15dB pad, but the headroom these particular units have, is wonderful.

Best is, this design is almost acoustically transparent - next-best thing to being there. Virtually no EQ needed.

*****

Explanation of signal path: This intercepts the instrument output before going to any artist's on-stage preamp/amp. A "thru" output (1/4 in) then goes-on to their onstage noise; an XLR out wires this to the stagebox/snake/console. Some "heads" now have lo-Z outputs and so this isn't needed (although I find it less problematic than many built-in direct outputs...). And, some acoustic artists insist on coming-out from their specialized tube preamp head and FX units, so the house has their preferred coloration. That's fine, too. But going into this provides the cleanest send. Period.

Quote from Bo "
And for you live sound support fanatics out there, this is simply the best active DI I've ever heard."

Hey Bo-I agree with you about there active devices.

Tried the passive units yet?

Those passives are my favorites,I like em better than the active devices.

Remember-If it has tires, t#ts or solder joints-Its gonna give you problems!!!!!!!

Oldmics

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Originally posted by Oldmics
Remember-If it has tires, t#ts or solder joints-Its gonna give you problems!!!!!!!

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:rotfl:

Hey, Oldmics...

I hoped you chime in here! I do like their passive - JDI MkIII is what I'm familiar with. Truly transparent unit. The ability to take a feed after the guitar amp is pretty cool - any time I can whipe-out another open mic on stage, the better! :yes: But I've lately enjoyed the 10 volt rails on the active - seemingly infinite headroom, and needs no EQ for faithful sound reproduction. Saved me a lot of headaches over others. :duck:

So, what other gear you playin' with this season...? :hmm:

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Originally posted by scott fitlin
And what always amazes me is how acoustic instruments or the human voice can sound so powerful, and fill a really big room, or theatre, and no recording or stereo system compares, no matter how powerful it may be!

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You are correct, and it is helpful to consider this scenario in terms of acoustic watts.

From a stereophile archive, "Want to talk power? A typical moving-coil loudspeaker is around 1% efficient. When you're pinning back your ears with a 100Wpc amp running flat out, the speakers are putting out just two acoustic watts into your listening room. By contrast, a single trombone in full song pumps out as much as 35 acoustic watts! You'd need a 1750Wpc amp to energize the room to the same extent, assuming your speakers didn't go into terminal meltdown. "

Even though many JBL's are more efficient, the idea is the same, of course..........................
It is this basic difference in acoustic watts that seems to account for much of the difference. And another reason why big speakers with lots of watts available, played at realistic levels, sound better to me and many others...........

It's an topic that is underdiscussed, IMO.
Here is the article.

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/622/

yes underdiscused it is!

over 99% goes up in heat in the voicecoils. unbelieveble how good it can sound anyway!