Driver choice for 4641 cabinet - 2241H or 2242H or 2245H, what are the pros/cons?

OK, using JBLs specs of 225 liter box tuned to 25 Hz. But this is probably erronious and they should have specified the vent dimensions to get the actual tuning.

Think about it..., the dynamics of the installed speaker come into play in box tuning and how could both drivers be tuned to 25 Hz in the same box with the same vent?

2241 in green and 2242 shown in white. In a 3-way, what do you want to hear?

http://www.audioheritage.org/photopo...r_24_13_01.jpg

Sorry everyone, I went away for a week over Easter and only just got back. I'm just going through all the new comments now, thanks again for all the input and discussion, you guys really know your JBL drivers wow.

Had a couple more questions you might be able to answer; Firstly, what sort of crossover frequency would you recommend for this once I get it all put together? As it was going to be used as a domestic use subwoofer I was thinking somewhere around 80-120hz but was wondering if you recommend going a bit higher as it would probably perform better in the mid bass than my current speakers. It will be going into a 2 channel music set up which at the moment consists of some Infinity 6 Kappas powered by a TA-N80ES power amp. As I said before i'm going to order a minidsp to perform room correction and split the frequency range between the TA-N80ES and the iNuke/JBL sub. Haven't decided though if it would be better to EQ the sub from the minidsp as well or from the iNuke's onboard dsp, probably the minidsp I suppose.

For box lining I was thinking of buying some of this stuff which seems like it will be reasonably good, does that seem like a decent choice? Also something else I noticed is that the area behind the port tube is painted black and if I use the staple marks in the wood as a guide, it doesn't seem like there was ever any damping material attached there directly behind the tube. Is there a reason for this, should I leave that area bare? Was also wondering if the cab should be stuffed with any loose material or if just damping the internal walls is enough/how it is supposed to be.

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Originally Posted by toddalin

Pros and cons
BTW, I would seriously be considering the 2269 if available.

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I might have to check the physical measurements on the 2269 to see if it would fit as there is some bracing midway through the cabinet which may get in the way of this driver as it's very deep but the taper might be enough for it to fit. I think it may be a little out of my price range though unfortunately.

I think at this point i'm probably going to hit up HCSGuy for one of his 2245's in a few weeks when I can spare the cash (just got hit with $1200 at the dentist for a couple of fillings which was annoying and set me back a little)

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Originally Posted by toddalin

OK, using JBLs specs of 225 liter box tuned to 25 Hz. But this is probably erroneous and they should have specified the vent dimensions to get the actual tuning.

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The vent dimensions on my 4641 cab are 18cm diameter with a depth of 32cm if that helps

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Originally Posted by Cheapdrinks

Sorry everyone, I went away for a week over Easter and only just got back. I'm just going through all the new comments now, thanks again for all the input and discussion, you guys really know your JBL drivers wow.

Had a couple more questions you might be able to answer; Firstly, what sort of crossover frequency would you recommend for this once I get it all put together? As it was going to be used as a domestic use subwoofer I was thinking somewhere around 80-120hz but was wondering if you recommend going a bit higher as it would probably perform better in the mid bass than my current speakers. It will be going into a 2 channel music set up which at the moment consists of some Infinity 6 Kappas powered by a TA-N80ES power amp. As I said before i'm going to order a minidsp to perform room correction and split the frequency range between the TA-N80ES and the iNuke/JBL sub. Haven't decided though if it would be better to EQ the sub from the minidsp as well or from the iNuke's onboard dsp, probably the minidsp I suppose.

For box lining I was thinking of buying some of this stuff which seems like it will be reasonably good, does that seem like a decent choice? Also something else I noticed is that the area behind the port tube is painted black and if I use the staple marks in the wood as a guide, it doesn't seem like there was ever any damping material attached there directly behind the tube. Is there a reason for this, should I leave that area bare? Was also wondering if the cab should be stuffed with any loose material or if just damping the internal walls is enough/how it is supposed to be.




I might have to check the physical measurements on the 2269 to see if it would fit as there is some bracing midway through the cabinet which may get in the way of this driver as it's very deep but the taper might be enough for it to fit. I think it may be a little out of my price range though unfortunately.

I think at this point i'm probably going to hit up HCSGuy for one of his 2245's in a few weeks when I can spare the cash (just got hit with $1200 at the dentist for a couple of fillings which was annoying and set me back a little)




The vent dimensions on my 4641 cab are 18cm diameter with a depth of 32cm if that helps

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According to WinISD the box is tuned to 27.15 Hz. Plots are below with 2241H in green and 2242H in white.

One needs to recognize that the plots are based on the roll-off from the average signal, overlaid upon each other, and do not consider that the 2242H is ~3 dB louder, and would still be 3 dB louder at 27 Hz (where the plot lines cross) even though it is further rolled-off along it's journey to this point relative to the 2241H. Subjectively, this would make the 2242H stronger at 27 Hz when compared in a "heads up" competition with the 2241H.

However if you've settled on 2245s, in this case it is a moot point.

http://www.audioheritage.org/photopo...r_25_12_32.jpg

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Originally Posted by toddalin

BTW, there is another issue that need to be addressed and has been totally ignored. That is, what are the other drivers to be used?

The 2242 is so efficient that you will need to use it with some type of horn be it a "woofer" horn or driver horn. If you try to use a simple cone midrange, you will be hard pressed to find one that will keep up with the 2242. The 2251H 10" (with no horn enclosure as intended) barely keeps up with the 2241H.

In fact, I had the 2251 tuned nice and flat, but it didn't have the volume (dB) to keep up with the 2241 and I had to take a different tact in redoing the crossovers to let them sing louder. Know that you don't want to put a resistor in series with your woofer to knock down its dB (screws with the damping), and the best you'll do is to put a 20 ohm high wattage, non-inductive resistor across the woofer terminals to reduce the volume ~1-2 dB.

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My 2251J's "keep up" with dual 2226Hs just fine. Aside from that, OP said he'll use an amp with built in DSP and he also mentioned buying a MiniDSP...he won't need to mess with no stinkin' resistors.

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Originally Posted by toddalin

...Think about it..., the dynamics of the installed speaker come into play in box tuning and how could both drivers be tuned to 25 Hz in the same box with the same vent?

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You tune the box, not the driver, i.e. changing the woofer in a box doesn't change the tuning of the box, but the tuning of the box changes how a driver will perform in said box. Hoping that makes sense because it's a common misconception. Let me try it this way...you can build a box and tune it to whatever you want without even knowing what driver you'll put into it.

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Originally Posted by gasfan

But how do they compare with original oem construction? You're arriving at comparable mms but what did you start with before aquaplas? How comparatively rigid is the final product? I don't mean to take you to task, I just want to hear how well they've been emulated.:)

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I blew my 2245H being stupid with an overpowered amp and Soul Coughing "Rolling", a tune which has some serious LF. I sent it off to edgewound for a recone and just got it back last week. It sounds great and I can't tell any difference from before, so for me, compares well with oem construction. I highly recommend his work.

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Originally Posted by Cheapdrinks

It's being sold by the most respected speaker repair place in NSW
Says WHO when it comes to JBL... NOT from what i've seen of their work...

(The Speaker Hospital in Sydney is pretty much the go to place for all speaker repairs in this area and has nothing but very positive reviews. They've helped me in the past as well with some parts for some vintage EV speakers) so I would imagine the quality couldn't be too bad.

Do you think it's worth taking a chance or are aftermarket recone kits a crapshoot in terms of quality?

NEVER, not to a JBL. I was once where you are many years ago and now I still have the bruises where i've kicked myself for falling for it. Regret sounds horrible!

.....figure of total driver cost+freight?

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Sometimes you just have to weigh things up for when you buy from the States.

If you are looking for a Basket to Recone a 2245, I may be able to help. I'm on the NSW south coast. I am waiting to get some recones from Edgewound [here on

the forum] who has also Aquaplased a bunch of recones to the Proper [as good as you are going to get these days!] JBL Specs. Expensive? Not considering.

Just have to wait until the USD/AUD$ exchange gets a bit better and i'll be getting some.

From what I have learned, this is what I am going to do.

Kind Regards,
DogBox
[steve]

Is the box made of plywood och chipboard? How dense plywood? How much bracing is there?